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mdgspencer
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Serious moral problems have arisen during the pandemic. Catholic moral teaching helps decide what to do in some of them.
Catholic moral theology has important role as pandemic causes ethical dilemmas
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Serious moral problems have arisen during the pandemic. Catholic moral teaching helps decide what to do in some of them.
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1ke
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good article, thanks for posting.
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Freddy
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Isn’t the very concept of triage against Catholic teaching?
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0Scarlett_nidiyilii
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No.
Triage means simply to prioritize how how you’re going to care for more than one person.
Nurses and doctors do this all the time.
If I’m working in a school nurse office and a kiddo actively in hypoglycemia and a kiddo with a pencil poke walk into my office, the diabetic gets my first attention.
If anybody is interested, the National Catholic Bioethics Center has a lot of articles on this topic.
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TheLittleLady
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Do you have a source?
Triage happens in every hospital on earth.
We also need to remember that moral theology does not require extraordinary means to maintain life. Nourishment and hydration, as long as the body can process them, is required.
Triage happens in every hospital on earth.
We also need to remember that moral theology does not require extraordinary means to maintain life. Nourishment and hydration, as long as the body can process them, is required.
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Freddy
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I’m envisaging an actual decision as to who lives and who dies. That’s the point that we will probably reach. Not ‘who do we treat first’. If you have one ventilator available does to go to the young woman with a family or the old guy in his eighties?
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PatK63
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@Freddy
I am 79. The other thing that comes into the equation is how likely will the patient respond positively to treatment that is in limited supply. In most cases I think the young mom wins without question. That decision does not cause a death. The death is a result of the disease. Finally, a doctors job is to fight pain and suffering not to prolong life.
I am 79. The other thing that comes into the equation is how likely will the patient respond positively to treatment that is in limited supply. In most cases I think the young mom wins without question. That decision does not cause a death. The death is a result of the disease. Finally, a doctors job is to fight pain and suffering not to prolong life.
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Freddy
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Stay safe, Pat.
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1ke
Guest
That is covered in the article. Choosing the young person over the old person based solely on age or disability, etc, is not triage. And that would be immoral.
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Freddy
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Why would it not be? The definition of triage is determining the order of treatment. How would you determine if the woman or the old man gets the ventilator? And I’m talking of two seriously ill people. Either would die without help, so how do you decide?Freddy:
That is covered in the article. Choosing the young person over the old person based solely on age or disability, etc, is not triage. And that would be immoral.
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Annie
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Perhaps it would be better to say that age cannot be a sole determining factor in triage; we cannot say that everyone over XX age will be denied, no matter their condition or that of the younger person.
If it is a choice between 2 people at about the same level of health, then the parent of young children could be prioritized over the very old person, but in that case, age is not the sole determining factor.
If it is a choice between 2 people at about the same level of health, then the parent of young children could be prioritized over the very old person, but in that case, age is not the sole determining factor.
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Freddy
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Decisions will be made which will effectively deny people treatment and which will result in their death. Age will be one of the deciding factors. Of that there is no doubt.
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Annie
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True but there is a difference between “one of the deciding factors” and “the sole determining factor.”
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Freddy
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True. But all other things being equal…Freddy:
True but there is a difference between “one of the deciding factors” and “the sole determining factor.”
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TheLittleLady
Guest
Our physicians and trained medical staff know how to triage. They will know which patient is likely to benefit the most from any treatment, the family would also be part of the decisions. I know I do not want any extraordinary measures.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
This happens every day in hospitals.
I’ve been witness to my husband who needed a heart transplant.
First he had an artificial pump implanted in his heart. For this, there was a qualification process. This took into account his lifestyle, age, weight, family support and medical coverage. Once he was approved for that device, then begins the process of being accepted into a transplant program “being listed”.
It is not like on TV where someone needs a heart and they are just suddenly on the list. We have dear friends who have been listed, others who are doing things to get listed (losing weight, obtaining the enormous out of pocket non insurance money, gathering a support system and more) and dealing with things they cannot control (antibodies, mental disorders, comorbidities, etc.)
Once someone does get listed, they have various status levels. Many, many people die before they get a shot at a heart, as did my husband.
Some get outright rejected from transplant programs.
Even a status 1 person can die because there is simply not a donor in their geographical area.
Some remove themselves from being listed simply because they do not want to go through a transplant, or they cannot fathom the lifestyle changes, they want to drink or smoke.
Maybe it is because I have lived in a world where it is not a lack of ventilators but a lack of donor organs that I am not worried and trust that the skilled medical people will do their best.
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Freddy
Guest
I’m sorry to hear about your husband.
You stay safe.
You stay safe.
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Pattylt
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I’ve watched triage decisions many times. One thing is that between two people needing treatment, it’s never exactly equal. One or the other has a better survivability chance than the other. Often age is the deciding factor due to the ability to survive the process. If an old normally healthy man and a sickly younger one present, the older male may very well get treated first. Usually, the choice goes to the sickest with a chance to survive versus the one that nothing can be done for. Doing triage takes a mental toughness many of us couldn’t handle. Docs are trained to not only make the decision but then block out everything else happening and focusing on the patient they’re treating.
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