Catholic or not?

JOL · May 30, 2008

Hello.

I know none of you can specifically answer my questions, but if you have ever experianced something like this I would love to hear how you dealt with or overcame it or even gave into it.

First, I was raised Catholic. My parents didn’t teach me anything about the Catholic faith, they left that up to Sunday Mass and CCD when they sent me there. I guess it is wise to say I think I know all about the Catholic faith, but really, all I know I have learned the last several years from the anti-Catholic crowd. When I turned 19 I quit going to Mass and pretty much, quit being Catholic. I embraced protestantism as a religion. It is 11 years later and I am no further ahead then I was at 19.

Protestants say they have freedom in Christ, but I don’t find that nessesarily true. With myself as a protestant, I only had freedom from Catholic things, but what I seriously lack is structure, organization, rules, etc. A protestant will say that is legalism, but is it really? I don’t think so. We need laws to govern our nations. We need leaders to govern people. Why is it different in the Catholic faith or in religion period. Why, in religion is laws and governing looked at as legalism? From birth we need do’s and don’ts. Our parents aren’t running dictatorships in our homes, but they are governing them to create order. This makes sense.

Well, I have strayed from my overall point in this post. When I am a practicing protestant all is well in my life. When I stop attending church for any number of weeks (2, 4, 6,…etc.) I begin to recall my Catholic upbringing and begin to wonder all over again why I am not Catholic anymore. What does this mean? Why is it when I attend protestant services I am a happy-go-lucky protestant, but if I stop attending for a few weeks I long for the days as a Catholic. I long for the structure, the rules, etc. Why? Has anyone else experianced this, what does it mean?

dosdog · May 30, 2008

themass.org/

Believe_85 · May 30, 2008

I think you know the answer, maybe you are just scared to answer the call…all you perceive you will be giving up, the road ahead, the fear of the unknown. God is speaking to you, and you are listening. Only one faith is One, Holy, Universal, and Apostolic. Come home to the Faith. Come back to Jesus in the Eucharist. It is the yearning for the fullness of your faith that you feel. God’s peace be with you.

Chuck_H · May 30, 2008

There were two kids, one was raised by strict parents and to grow he had to rebel a little but always knew the basic rules. The other was raised by “who cares, if it feels good, do it” parents. He had no rules to measure against or rebel against as he grew.
Which do you think became a more mature adult?

The RC Church states categorically She is perfect (which She is not but that is subject for other threads) but is reliable in Her tradition and discipline. That gives the Catholic a reliable measure to grow under and a general set of guidelines to rebel against as they grow in Faith and God’s life. As you stay away from the opiate of “I’m OK-You’re Ok” of some protestant groups you begin to realize you have nothing to measure yourself against.

In that way Rome is the “Rock” you strive with and against and, in the end, get a sense of real spiritual development and growth.

fair enough?

Gabriel_of_12 · May 30, 2008

Sounds like God is calling you back home JOL:
As far as disciplines, Liturgical worship in the Roman Catholic faith, these have been around since Jesus and the Apostles. None of our beliefs have changed what Jesus taught and the apostles handed down to their successors, through our bishops and Popes. On another note, Jesus fulfilled the old covenant, and every time I go to Mass, I see all these things Jesus did, come into fulfillment at Mass, especially when heaven and earth meet as one body at Mass.

Recommendation: it does not hurt to investigate the Roman Catholic church, and her teachings unchanged for 2 millenium now. Get a catechism of the Catholic church, go to Mass, go to adoration, talk to a priest, and if you can go to confession. You will not regret it. Most prostestants who come back home to the Catholic faith, end up becoming better Catholics, because they have more appreciation for the liturgy of the Word of God, and the lIturgy of the Eucharist (thanksgiving) body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus christ present before all believers. IF you truly want to find Jesus, “You will no longer see me again, until you say blessed is he who comes in the name of Lord”.

Find out why the Holy Spirit is tugging at your heart about the Catholic church which is the body of Jesus Christ on earth. Once you learn the truth about the Catholic faith from one who knows the faith, not by one who has been misinformed about the Catholic faith, you will come to the light and God will teach you truth.

I will pray for you, the evil one will try and hinder you, but if it is God calling you, the evil one cannot snatch from the hand of God.

May the Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you.

Techno2000 · May 31, 2008

catholicforum.com/churches/cathteach/divinemercy1.htm
our.homewithgod.com/divinemercy/
angelfire.com/ca3/rafaelmarie/ThePieta/athepieta.html
catholicbooksonline.org/item.asp?PID=294

Verisimilitude · May 31, 2008

It isn’t the rule or structure itself; it is the ‘why’ of them that is calling to you I think.

Yes, similar. It is an individual journey though despite any similarities. Like a snowflake- all different - all the same. Welcome to the glacier.

Tietjen · May 31, 2008

Protestants don’t have the “rules” that you speak of because if they did use these rules, they would have to admit that they themselves broke them some 500 years ago. So, its better to simply “not be legalistic.” Welcome home (even if you haven’t re-crossed the Tiber yet). If I might suggest a couple of books that I believe will certainly be of interest to you…

Crossing the Tiber by Steve Ray
&
Rome Sweet Rome by Scott & Kimberly Hahn

God bless.

JOL · May 31, 2008

Thanks for all the replies. I will do some more investigating. I don’t know that I am ready - or even being called - “back home” yet. I go through this same thing maybe once a year. Why? I will beging going back to Mass then after a few weeks run back to the protestant ‘freedom’ services.

Another thing, there are areas of Catholic tradition that I oppose, it maybe that I don’t fully understand why they are done. Over the next few days/weeks I will think of these things and bring them here if that is okay. If you can help me understand the value of these certain traditions it might be easier for me.

One is fasting from meat on Friday’s during lent. What is the point when this isn’t a sacrifice for you and you are simply doing it because the Church says to? I love cheese pizza, so on Friday’s during lent (as wells as Friday’s during the rest of the year) I eat cheese pizza…something I really love…so what kind of a sacrifice is this? I am certainly not holding myself back from something for the sake of Christ.

This may seem like a rather minor opposition, but still, I don’t understand the importance or benefit of holding back from something I don’t really care that much about in the first place. Thanks again for your kind replies.

LDNCatholic · May 31, 2008

Thats a bare minimum. My personal Lenten fast is far more rigourous than that, as are many other Catholics.

Personally I abstain from all animal products, flesh, fish, fowl, eggs, milk. I also abstain from alcohol and limit my meals.

Tantum_ergo · May 31, 2008

Dear JOL:

The point about abstaining from meat on Lenten Fridays ‘just because the Church says so’ is—just exactly–that “the Church says so”.

IOW. . .it is obedience to authority, because it is the authority.

Just because many people are vegetarians, or love fish, and so ‘abstaining from meat is not a sacrifice’ does not mean that they should not obey the Church. After all, there are many more non-vegetarians and fish-haters (with the exception of tuna and fried clams, I’m one of them myself

) for whom it IS a sacrifice. Those who do not find it a sacrifice should do it anyway and ‘add’ another penance if the simple subjugation of their own will to the Church doesn’t seem to be enough.

You see, even if they don’t recognize it, many of those who complain about “following the Church’s rules” are not complaining because they ‘already follow them’ (i.e. by being vegetarians or eating fish anyway)… . they are complaining because **they ** feel they should not have to ‘submit themselves’ to a rule they feel does not apply to them, or that the Church should either come up with something that applies to every single person equally, or do nothing.

‘Human’ self-will, human ‘freedom’. That’s what it’s all about. . .
IOW: “If it doesn’t apply to me, make sense to me. . .I don’t do it”. It’s an attempt to rationalize away one’s disobedience with “the rule doesn’t apply to me, or is stupid”.

MarysRoses · May 31, 2008

my 2 cents …

Fasting is recommended in the bible.

Granted, the lenten fast has become a bit dated culturally. It is no longer much of a sacrifice to give up meat (it used to be a luxury food). Many people today prefer fish or vegetarian foods anyway. So why bother? Why doesn’t the Church ‘update’? There is no explicit directive in the bible for abstaining from meat on Friday so why should we have to comply?

To some extent, the rules have been updated. Children, the elderly, people needing to eat meat or avoid fasting for medical reasons are exempt. For the rest of us, its still a discipline.

My son had the same questions. We had been out of Church for several years, and so he was not familiar with the traditional discipline. He found all kinds of reasons he thought the restriction was silly and old fashioned, didn’t make sense, why bother… etc. etc. He’s also not a much of a meat eater and loves fish. (So was his thinking).

Then the reality of making such a ‘small’ sacrifice began to bother him. His favorite dish made without bacon didn’t taste the same. He wanted pepperoni instead of plain cheese pizza on a Friday evening. It wasn’t as easy as he thought. Meat always looked twice as tempting and tasty on Friday.

Then he rebelled against it, said it was stupid, Church was stupid, he wasn’t going to do it anymore. He didn’t need Church and rules to be a Christian.

I pointed out that the real point wasn’t whether or not to eat meat. The point was to establish the discipline of voluntarily reining in our desires and wants to make a token sacrifice. We like instant gratification. What does it say if you can’t give up a few slices of pepperoni for something bigger than yourself? He didn’t immediately ‘get it’ of course, but he keeps the days of fast and abstinence now without grumbling.

Its human nature to want what you can’t have. I think a lot of his struggle was what “right” did the church have to tell him what he could eat. A lot of my Protestant friends are very vocal in their opinions that such rules are ‘man made’ and they have freedom in Christ. At the same time I notice they adopt the ‘rules’ of whatever church they attend without seeing any self contradiction. This makes sense, without establishing structure and a group identity, their congregations wouldn’t last more than a generation or two.

I do know a few, mostly through the internet, that don’t encourage any kind of formal organization of Christians. They worship at home with family or a few friends, or drop in to any congregation that appeals to them at the time. No doubt they are sincere in their views, but I often wonder, if we all adopted that attitude who would support the necessary physical and social institutions to transmit our faith to future generations? These people have a bible because millions of monks through the centuries spent their lifetime carefully hand copying manuscripts. What is their contribution to the future?

Lenten fast and abstinence are good things that establish some personal discipline and ties to people that went before us.

A tuna fish casserole “smells” like spring to me. Lent starts when days are cold and grey but its a sign that Easter is coming and with it spring and green lawns. My kids have learned that the change of menu signals a transition in our daily lives. Its a physical reminder of a spiritual awakening. Its a homey tradition that gives a feeling of solidarity with generations of families that made similar small sacrifices over the years and centuries.

Yes, this is a “rule” but like all good family rules, it is for the well being and (spiritual) health of our Church family.

MarysRoses

jmcrae · May 31, 2008

Did you receive any of your Sacraments? (First Reconciliation, First Holy Communion, Confirmation)

If so, then it would be really quite easy for you to return to the Catholic faith.

Nobody can say they know “everything” about the Catholic faith. If someone comes to me (I am a Catechist) and tells me that they know everything they need to know about being a Catholic and don’t need to bother with Catechism classes, this tells me that they have not even begun to study the subject with any seriousness.

(It’s a totally other thing, of course, if someone tells me, “I looked at your syllabus, and I think I have already covered these topics elsewhere. Where can I go for more in-depth information?” Then I send them to the Diocese to look into other possibilities.)

jblake · May 31, 2008

JOL;:

Give me a child until he is seven, do what you like, and he will remain mine.

The rest of the essay that that quote comes from, will fill in the details. (I’m not misquoting the Jesuit maxim here.)

xan

jonathon

SIA · May 31, 2008

Not all Protestants lack structure and probably what you are referring to as the Liturgy or a Liturgical church. I know exactly what you are talking about. i have been to Protestant churches that seem like they are a ton of Scripture reading and preaching but nothing else to put you on track. As an Anglican, I am Protestant by the definition of the RCC. I do believe that nothing is more authoritative than the Holy Scriptures but I believe that we must have that structure as the early church did to understand and absorb what God’s Word is and how we should respond to it.

Catholic or not?

JOL

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