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JustaServant
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Thanks.
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Granum_Frumenti
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One translation of On the Trinity refers to the “Greeks” and the “Latins.” See paragraphs 7 and 11; both refer to differences between the languages of Greek and Latin.
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Gabriel_of_12
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St. Augustine was a heavy weight champion in his day against heresies, heretics and false man made theologies.
If Orthodox would read of his works instead of rejecting his writings/teachings like a plague.
You will find this great Catholic Saintly mind, saw no need to defend the apostolic revelations and doctrine of the Catholic West to the Orthodox in the East. He saw the Orthodox being Catholic that needed no defending against, because he saw the complexity of theology on a par and overcame the language and cultural barriers that the Orthodox today have proven to have a hard time over comming the understanding, language and cultural barriers that feed into the schism today.
Believe me, St. Augustine and his contemporary St.Jerome during their life time; if they saw the Orthodox teaching or believing another gospel other than what was revealed to Peter in the bishop’ of Rome and practiced in the West. Orthodox would have a tough time today justifying their existence in the Church.
Although tensions were rising between the Eastern and Western secular powers, that affected the Patriarch’s of Constantinople and the bishop’s of Rome. St. Augustine catching wind of the arguments and tension, only saw in them language, cultural and understanding differences expressed from the same doctrine that needed no defending. Just cool heads, and sin reconciled from offended prides. We can all learn a lesson here from St. Augustine
Peace be with you
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Gabriel_of_12
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Nice site Granum; Thank you, I did not know it existed. I tell you I never stop learning here at CA.
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Gabriel_of_12
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“I have yet to see an Orthodox define infallibility, Immaculate Conception, Purgatory, filioque in the same way Catholics express these defined doctrines of the Catholic Church” to be exceedingly strange. It could just as easily be said that I have yet to see Catholics express the essence-energies distinction as the Eastern Orthodox most thoroughly do (instead they say that He is simple…), but I’m at a loss as to what that’s supposed to mean./
Everything you stated (bolded) supports my experience on these boards, and my previous post, thank you.
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prodromos
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Speaking of hostile responses?!
If you considered my response instead of going on a knee jerk tirade, you would have recognised that my comment was not regarding St Augustine, who would not have used the term “Orthodox” in this context, but rather on the quite biased and erroneous translation or paraphrase used in the post.
I do thank you for demonstrating the fact that the OP is one sided in it claim with regard to who is hostile towards who. Bless you for that.
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Gabriel_of_12
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Are you stating a fact that St.Augustine never used the term “Orthodox”? Because you never asked the question?
Have you read St.Augustine?
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Peter_J
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I have definitely found that. But, while it can be discouraging, I continue to participate here. Why? Well, partly because I’ve spend time on various forums (something more people should probably try) and I find the same things there, just in reverse. E.g. you go to a Catholic forum and you find a lot of disdain for the Orthodox, or you go to an Orthodox forum and you find a lot of disdain for Catholics (or you go to a protestant forum and you find a lot of disdain for both).
That’s just my two cents. (Of course, I guess we can all occasionally use a complete break from internet discussion forums, period.
)Incidentally, one of my personal least favorites are the what’s-your-excuse-for-being-Orthodox-rather-than-Catholic conversations.
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prodromos
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I haven’t read all of Augustine’s works and have not yet read where the quote was taken but I know for a fact in the time of Augustine there was no Catholic/Orthodox distinction in any sense like was presented in the quote. If he had used “Greeks” and “Latins”, there would have been no problem, but the way it was presented was dishonest.
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prodromos
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Please forgive any typos which may have slipped through. I’m typing on my phone and seem to be making a few errors.
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prodromos
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I should have written that in my opinion it was dishonest.
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Gabriel_of_12
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Hi. prodromos, I am going to interpret your “dishonest” as not being intentional. When dishonesty is spoken of here in the West, it implies a willful intent to be purposely dishonest, this I believe was not your intention.
I bring this subject of definitions of words, that gets misunderstood and at times during our discussions, a cultural play on words can be offensive to others, when it is used as a compliment to another during our discussions. That is why putting the question helps to clarify the discussion.
That said, no apologies required, we all are guilty of typo errors.
prodromos, it appears that you are suggesting a disagreement when there is no disagreement or unintentional “dishonesty”.
It makes no difference when St.Augustine uses “Greeks and Latins”, East and West, Orthodox and Catholic. We both know exactly what St.Augustine is referencing both Church’s from the East and West. So I see no disagreement with terms being used here.
Although I was trying to find your interpretation of how you found them offensive?
Here is the quote from St.Augustine, “The Greek usage; for they say three substances, one essence, in the same way as we say three persons, one essence or substance”.
What may surprise you is that St.Augustine goes into depth of explaining the Church’s understanding of the Trinity and the filioque. His Greek and Latin usage of terms becomes instrumental at defusing complicated debates and misunderstandings of the Trinity and the filioque.
Yes filioque was already being discussed this early on in the Western Church to defeat the Eastern heresies.
Peace be with you
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