Catholic Praise Music Vs Other denominations

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Hey guy’s one thing i have seen increase in Catholic Church’s and social circles is the increase of Protestant praise music, we even have Christian rock bands and Pop bands etc which to me are an oxymoron. Now Catholics on this are quite split, myself included, many prefer the more beautiful timeless spiritual music that has stood the test of time throughout the ages which has done so for great reason. This is music that is a reflection of our soul’s most inner desire, to be in union with God, for many pagans it was to be in union with nature etc which is a creation of God, it’s style is deeper because it is designed to pull at the very depths of our soul

Now in the 20th century with the increase in various musical genres by the fusion of different cultures mainly in the US we have seen Rock, Pop, electronic etc. These genres were given birth by particular people who wanted to express themselves in unique ways each borrowing from each others culture. Each genre would express itself which relates to specific types of people in as much as any art does. Music like any art done right should be to invoke and highlight metaphysical truths which in a fallen world can lift us up in ways few things can. It transcends mere empirical reality. When done wrongly compound us into a reality of dread and despair, it is a reflection of the character of the person creating it. When certain music such as Rock expresses itself then it is already Christian by definition because it is simply through it’s style of art that is trying to convey truths about love, war, friendship, suffering etc which are simple realities of the human condition. Each music will try and convey these truths with different styles much like different forms of art will convey truth different in Church’s such as Gothic art.

Ok so explaining all this i hope you can better understand that music doesn’t need to say Jesus for it to be Christian when it already is highlighting the realities of his creation anyway. We have Christian myths such as the Lord of the Rings and Chronicles of Narnia yet none of these need to refer so obviously to Jesus whenever it is clear they are pointing us towards metaphysical truths which is why they relate to us in such unique and beautiful ways. One therefore does not need to be a so called Christian fictional or sci fi book to have very real meaning to Christian truths, they hardly need to have characters called Jesus in order to convey the necessity of his sacrifice and Resurrection when it’s already evident and invoked through original sin which these genres convey.
 
When we take specific genres and attempt to change the way it delivers truths it’s because we have an adolescent understanding of this music in the first place, this very music was created to express itself through a certain way, when we take this style and use it to reflect the obvious it’s just shows how clearly Christians miss the mark in understanding art. We then essentially spoon feed art to highlight what was already obvious and it with this i believe that many view it as quite cheesy. Even the atheists will be in awe of Catholic music as among other instrumental and spiritual music invoking one to reflect on our unity with our Creator. It reaches into their soul. Because this music reflects something deeper it’s style is deeper. Some styles of music are merely for fun for example such as Pop music and again this style reflects our natural human desires and passions. If we took this music and instead used it as a ‘‘dance for jesus’’ then we again are missing the mark of it’s purpose and how already it is Christian by invoking that which is Good. What do you guys think? For those who enjoy this new type of praise music each to their own, i’m just simply giving my opinion on why i prefer certain music and what it means in the first place, i hope i have explained my position well . I believe we can evangelize through art which Catholicism is renowned for but this happy clappy stuff just doesn’t sit well with me, it’s sort of reducing God to being an emotional high which goes against all rationalism in art which is to proclaim the truth of beauty itself
 
Another way of understanding is looking at other forms of art such as through theatrics and movies. There are forms of art that are comical and for mere enjoyment and others than are quite deep spiritually. I feel it is the same with music, each dealing with the truths of reality through different styles. Take slapstick comedy, imagine if Christians made their own version of it trying to highlight their praise of Jesus, it would be an injustice to both right worship and comedy itself as it would be a pretentious way of again highlighting the obvious, that God is our creator, the comedy art-style itself is an invocation of Truth by pointing out our absurdities at times. It forces us to think consciously or unconsciously about the world and reflect on it. Again however this is something the Charismatic Christians for example might not understand and attempt to perhaps to reduce
 
I’m currently studying music history with a man who has a doctoral degree in Music Theory and Composition and who has also served as organist in churches of all denominations, but mainly Episcopal, for over 50 years.

It is clear to me that music is constantly evolving. There is no such thing as a definitive “Christian” music. From the very beginning of Christianity, which borrowed its music from the Jewish tradition (used the same music, which included instruments), each generation of Christians has added their own “new” musical developments.

E.g., there was no notation in music for the first seven centuries of the Church. Sometime in the 7th or 8th century, “marks” are found in the “song sheets.” They look like commas, and scholars are still not certain whether or not they indicate the “music.” But they probably do, and were the first “musical notation.”

Neumes came along, and eventually notes, with 2 line staffs, then 3 line staffs, 4, 5, and even 6 line staffs!

Instruments were not used for the first several centuries of the Church (many of the Church Fathers considered them inappropriate and worldly), and then they came back again (so in other words, the pipe organ was not around during the Early Church)

The Psalms and Scriptural canticles were used for a few centuries, but then Christians began writing their own poetry, and THAT was controversial for a while until it gained acceptance.

I haven’t gotten to actual “hymnody” yet in my study, but I’m sure the same thing will be obvious–that hymns started out with certain conventions that the Church followed, and then new conventions developed, which were looked upon negatively at first, but gradually gained acceptance by the Church.

What I’m telling you is this–there is no such animal as “Catholic” music, because it has changed with every generation and during each century of the Christian Church.

You call it “happy clappy” music, while others see it as deeply moving and meaningful.

I have played organ and piano in several parishes and also in Protestant churches for almost 50 years now, and my conclusion is the same as the late musician, Larry Norman, who is considered by many as the originator of “Christian rock” (I would say Ralph Carmichael)–Larry said, “Why should the devil have all the good music?”

My personal opinion about Church music (and it is being strengthened by my current studies) is that ALL music can and should glorify God, and it is our task as Christians to take it back from the unbelievers and restore it to its purpose-to bring glory to God!

I also believe that each Christian will find certain styles of songs, hymns, and spiritual songs more personally appealing than other styles, but that doesn’t make the other styles “worldly” or “banal.” It means that all Christians are different, and that is a GOOD thing! We should not be like the drones in old science fiction movies, who march along dressed the same, walking the same, and talking the same. We are individuals and we are from many countries and cultures, and our tastes in music reflect that, and it is glorious, not a cacophony! God be praised forever!
 
 
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Thank you for that, was quite inciteful and I do agree with you music does evolve over time but that’s not my point. My point is the style of music is a unique expression which fits the way it tries to convey certain metaphysical truths. Think how Rock music was born and the style it uses to explain love, relationships, war etc Opera another example and how it expresses these exact same subjects differently. Spiritual/instrumental music is a style that transcends mere time, it has existed long before Christ and used by many different Faith’s to invoke harmony with the divine. Early Christian music as that which is most beautiful today Carry’s on this tradition believing that such musical expression attempts to dive deep into the very depths of our soul in a way few other styles can do. It is through such musical expression we are lifted up In reverence.

As for Larry Norman, he completely misses the point just as the atheist rebel who feels he is making a statement against God when he is in fact glorifying God. Any harmony created by man is simply the borrowing of elements instituted by God and when it is put together in such a creative and structural manner it again highlights the intelligible order of beauty itself. Think in comparison to a man bashing a piano relentlessly. We by our very existence are a glorification of God, through harmony in art we participate in his Glory, twisting this art to suit our own desires and indulgences does certainly harm this aspect but it can’t ever erase it. Only when our eternal fate is decided after death by our choice to reject life will those who desire to break off from this Glorification be truly free to do so, with great consequence of course
 
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This is your second thread in 24 hours ranting about others’ preferences you don’t agree with. Why? What do you want to accomplish? Could it just possibly be that people don’t all have the same preferences and styles as you within the range of what’s acceptable and permissible according to Holy Mother Church? Would that be terrible?

All you’re doing for me at the moment is sending the message to dig my heals in on my (perfectly valid and legitimate) choices that may very well be at odds with yours. That may not be very charitable of me, but your initial (long) posts don’t come across charitably to this reader, either. I hope I’m mistaken.
 
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Paddy1989 said:
Early Christian music as that which is most beautiful today Carry’s on this tradition believing that such musical expression attempts to dive deep into the very depths of our soul in a way few other styles can do. It is through such musical expression we are lifted up In reverence.
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Although the words exist to Early Christian Music (before the 7th-8th Century), no melodies were written down, and we really have no idea how they were sung or played. We can get a clue about 1st church music from Jewish music that still survives from that time, but we really can’t say what melody, if any, was used for St. Ambrose’s “O Gladsome Light!”.

So I don’t see how you can make the statement that you are making about “early Christian music” because you have no idea what the “style” was.

Are you speaking of Gregorian chant? I personally don’t think it’s likely that this music style will be utilized by the majority of Catholic or Protestant churches because it isn’t easy to learn, as others on CAF will testify. It’s certainly possible, but it’s a long shot.
 
Paddy1989 said:
As for Larry Norman, he completely misses the point just as the atheist rebel who feels he is making a statement against God when he is in fact glorifying God
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Can you give an example of Larry Norman missing the point by citing one of his songs? Thank you.
 
Your mistaken, you don’t need be offended so stop going out of your way to be. This thread was an attempt to help people understand why many Catholics prefer more spiritual music rather than let’s say rock as praise music in Church. Each to their own. I’m helping explain how musical styles were created and their purpose. If you prefer Christian Pop that’s fine, I’m explaining why I prefer more spiritial/instrumental timeless genre for church music that Is all. Each to their own
 
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No need to do that, it’s an open discussion where all is welcome. The Catholic church encompasses a whole number of different cultures and peoples who Express their faith differently in line with the Church. This thread is just my observations on how art Is used to participate in worship and evangelize and also what I personally believe has the most impact in certain cultures. I’m hoping to discuss what others think
 
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Ahhhh, Larry Norman. The man with the most unfortunate album cover in the history of recorded music.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Ahhhh, Larry Norman. The man with the most unfortunate album cover in the history of recorded music.
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Which album?

I like the one that has his picture–that long white-blonde hair.

We saw him in concert a year or so before he died. He still had the hair–and the voice and the zeal for the Lord. R.I.P.
 
Some have an agenda and aren’t interested in discussion
 
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Based on your quote of his where he states not allowing the devil to claim all the good music, I’ll try and explain more in depth and clearer later on when I’m free. Basically what I explained at the beginning how music genres doesn’t need to have the word Jesus in it to be interpreted as Christian
 
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