Catholic Priest Speaks of How God's Existence Can Be Rationally Established

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Thanks for the article. It reminds us that everything that is caused must have a cause, so the universe could not have created itself. Only God is uncaused. No atheist would ever make me doubt that.
 
MasterHaster said:
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Dan_Defender:
It reminds us that everything that is caused must have a cause, so the universe could not have created itself.
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Quantum mechanics says otherwise.
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No, it doesn’t. I think any physicist who says that needs their statement qualified, and there are certainly many physicists who would reject that statement outright anyway.
 
You’re right Wesrock. I would add that some have also tried to explain dark matter, dark energy and supermassive black holes using quantum mechanics, and failed.
 
I think I surprise people, when I explain to them why I believe God’s existence without using the Bible. If someone doesn’t believe the Bible, they’re not going to accept that as proof
 
SPBlitz said:
No. Both traditional Aristotleianism and Catholic Thomism give philosophical reasons for why God is uncaused.
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I know they do, but I think if one makes a statement that God is uncaused one must also be willing to back it up so we can all discuss it. Too often the idea that God is the uncaused cause is a way to try and sneak in this point via definition and not by reason.
 
MasterHaster said:
Not really. Because of confirmation bias you will reject anything scientific that contradicts your pre-suppositions. That is fine but discussing science will get us no where. I respect your views.
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That’s rich, MasterHaster. Just rich.
 
<Catholic priest speaks of how God’s existence can be rationally established>

And if God’s existence can be rationally established then next thoughts may include:
  • Then all the world is guilty before God for ignoring the God who was always rationally provable.
  • Then, I myself need to be humble about the trust I’ve put in my individual rationalizations and reasonings. I just may be that something important (the existence of God to whom I am accountable) was provable and I didn’t realize it.
  • I need to prepare the day of the just judgement of Almighty God:
    ** By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, who will repay everyone according to his works: eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness. (Romans 2:5-8)
 
MasterHaster said:
Not really. Because of confirmation bias you will reject anything scientific that contradicts your pre-suppositions. That is fine but discussing science will get us no where. I respect your views.
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Sounds more like you don’t have a good argument in support of your position that Wesrock can’t possibly debunk.

But because of reactions like yours, I always feel faith is needed. Just as you claim a believer will have bias, you have bias yourself. Everybody tends to have a bias. Rational proof either way is not going to overcome that. At some point it becomes a “Believe it or don’t.”
 
MasterHaster said:
Quantum mechanics says otherwise.
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MasterHaster said:
Not really. Because of confirmation bias you will reject anything scientific that contradicts your pre-suppositions. That is fine but discussing science will get us no where. I respect your views.
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This would be more convincing if quantum mechanics itself wasn’t very controversial even in the field of science. There are both non-deterministic and deterministic interpretations of quantum mechanics, and the philosophical implications of any experiments are controversial as well.

This isn’t a case of someone’s confirmation bias denying hard science like the Big Bang Theory or Evolution - quantum mechanics is inherently nebulous and still has a lot of question marks. i think a degree of skepticism , at least about your first quote I included, is warranted.
 
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MasterHaster said:
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Tis_Bearself:
Sounds more like you don’t have a good argument in support of your position that Wesrock can’t possibly debunk.
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You hit the nail on the head. Wesrock only wants to debunk science not look at evidence. He/She ignores any other evidence counter their beliefs with steadfastness.
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It sounds more like you’re describing yourself. You believe what you want to believe without examining your own presuppositions. I’ve no interest in “debunking science.” I don’t have any disagreements with quantum mechanics. Theoretical physics was my original undergraduate major before I switched to mathematics. It has been awhile but don’t pretend to know my interests or angle.

Bring up some examples for discussion and we can review.
 
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