Catholic sins that do not break the golden rule

[hellopeople]

Oh, really?

My mother has a very good heart. She’s spent her whole career as a special-education teacher, helping kids with disabilities. She volunteers at her church constantly. She’s kind, and generous, and spoils her seven (soon to be eight) grandchildren absolutely rotten. She recently drove over 1800 miles so she could see me for 24 hours, and help us move into our new house, before flying back home again. She’s had a good heart as long as I’ve known her.

And when I was 13 she cheated on my dad with my dad’s best friend. After the messy divorce, she married her partner in adultery, and they’ve been married for over a dozen years now. She says she regrets how their relationship began, and that it hurt so many people, but she doesn’t regret the relationship itself.

So are you really saying that my mother is evil?

In my opinion she was, at the time of the cheating at least, a very selfish and inconsiderate person.

 

[wanner47]

In my opinion she was, at the time of the cheating at least, a very selfish and inconsiderate person.

Sure, she acted selfishly and inconsiderately. But that doesn’t mean she didn’t have or has never had a “good heart.”

You said:

No one that does that ACTUALLY has a good heart. I refuse to believe that anyone that commits adultery has a good heart.

Well, my mother had and has a good heart. But she’s a sinner who made a huge, whopping mistake, out of selfishness, but inherently she still had/has a good heart. So therefore, your assertion above is incorrect. If you’re wrong about that, what else might you be wrong about? Something to ponder.

 

[LilyM]

Again, you’re citing your own assessment of your own experience as evidence, and furthermore you’re generalizing it to everyone without any foundation for doing so. It is not evidence; it’s an opinion or judgment. Suppose I had exactly the opposite experience with masturbation as you did? Or suppose I have an allergy to a particular food - should I warn that no one should eat it, based on my own experience?

If you have the opposite experience, then our conflicting accounts would need to be weighed up against each other - and probably the evidence of more practitioners gained to see where the consensus lies.

Regarding alcohol, as you note, medical authority warns against alcohol abuse; it doesn’t condemn drinking absolutely, the way the church does with masturbation. Furthermore, the harm caused by alcohol abuse has been well-documented by objective, published studies - far different from anecdotal evidence and self-observation.

Yes, but coming from an authority such as the AMA you realise that the conclusion is based on MUCH MUCH observation both by professionals and by alcoholics self-reporting their own experiences. The evidence of that one alcoholic simply adds to the collection of evidence the AMA already has.

Same with Church teaching - it is NOT simply plucked out of thin air, it is also based on observation and knowledge - much observation and knowledge - of the practical and psychological (not to mention spiritual) harms our sins, including the sin of masturbation do to us.

And you wouldn’t take one example to the contrary against the weight of AMA evidence - neither should you against Church teaching.

Example - I have a great-great grandma who lived to 107 and smoked right to the end. I wouldn’t take HER word, albeit truthful, that smoking did HER no harm as evidence that smoking is OK. Not ever.

Or ever say that it wasn’t a sin, even for those like her who seem to be unharmed. If she knew the usual consequences and did it anyway, it most likely was at least a venial sin. She was just blessed that God spared her from the usual ills smokers suffer. His merciful sparing of such doesn’t make her smoking morally fine and dandy (no misuse of any drug, tobacco included, is).

Similarly, the fact that God may have spared you from at least some of the consequences and ill-effects of masturbation doesn’t mean it’s not a sin for you.

Most things taken to excess are harmful; that doesn’t make them immoral by themselves.

Masturbation is itself the excess, though - it is the natural sexual instinct taken ‘to excess’, or at least abused and misused. God has taught us very clearly what sex is for - in scripture and outside of it. That is the unity of married couples and the procreation of children. Anything outside that is already an ‘excess’, just like any killing outside of self-defence or defence of country or other legitimate exceptions is already an ‘excess’.

There’s no such thing as ‘moderate’ masturbation any more than there’s ‘moderate’ murder.

 

[hellopeople]

Sure, she acted selfishly and inconsiderately. But that doesn’t mean she didn’t have or has never had a “good heart.”

You said:

Well, my mother had and has a good heart. But she’s a sinner who made a huge, whopping mistake, out of selfishness, but inherently she still had/has a good heart. So therefore, your assertion above is incorrect. If you’re wrong about that, what else might you be wrong about? Something to ponder.

Only God can know if she has a good heart.

 

[LilyM]

Only God can know if she has a good heart.

And you, clearly.

hellopeople:

No one that does that ACTUALLY has a good heart.

 

[hellopeople]

And you, clearly.

I really do think that adultery is one of the lowest and most disgusting sins that one can commit. I really don’t think that anyone that commits adultery can have a good heart, but I’m not the one that knows. Also, just to throw it out there, I don’t think that people that don’t have a good heart go to hell…I think that they come back to earth and get another shot until they figure it out. A merciful God isn’t sending people to eternal damnation IMO.

 

[kage_ar]

I see that you are a convert. Can I just ask if you were an evangelical before you converted?

Among other things, yes.

 

[hellopeople]

Among other things, yes.

It all makes so much sense now.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Well adultery 100% breaks the golden rule. That isn’t even arguable.

In my opinion, heaven is for those that have a good heart. You could say “what does that even mean, how can you tell, etc”…but I think God knows. If your intentions are consistently good, then you have a good heart.

Wasn’t the road to someplace *else *paved with good intentions?

An adulterer can be saved if he /she repents.

An adulterer could rationalize his adultery, “My wife is so mean, I just think the other woman treats me so much better. Wouldn’t God want me to be happy?”

 

[hellopeople]

Wasn’t the road to someplace *else *paved with good intentions?

An adulterer can be saved if he /she repents.

An adulterer could rationalize his adultery, “My wife is so mean, I just think the other woman treats me so much better. Wouldn’t God want me to be happy?”

It isn’t a good rationalization IMO. If you are going to commit adultery, you should have the decency to break off the relationship first.