Catholic Social Services "fruit"

[chrisg93]

As part of my apoligetics to Evangelicals I said that Catholic Social Services is the largest provider of social services in the world - “By their fruit will you know them” I read where that was true but I can’t document it. Can anyone help me with documentation? I would be very grateful.

Chris G

 

[nucatholic]

Interesting, reminds us that talking about faith and living out our faith are two different things…

 

[Redeemerslove]

chrisg93:

As part of my apoligetics to Evangelicals I said that Catholic Social Services is the largest provider of social services in the world - “By their fruit will you know them” I read where that was true but I can’t document it. Can anyone help me with documentation? I would be very grateful.

Chris G

www.biblegateway.com

And there is more to fruit than just social works. Another kind of fruit is rightness in belief.

 

[chrisg93]

redeemerslove,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, rightness of belief is also a fruit, but I don’t understand your point. Did you have something specific in mind? Why the Bible Gateway link?

Thanks
Chris G

 

[Redeemerslove]

chrisg93:

redeemerslove,

Thanks for the reply. Yes, rightness of belief is also a fruit, but I don’t understand your point. Did you have something specific in mind? Why the Bible Gateway link?

Thanks
Chris G

You did quote a scripture passage, why not look up the context? Also you can ask an apologist about the Greek in this passage. Fruit, could be both good works and right belief.

I think the way made your statement about fruit, made it seem like Catholic Social Workers have only good fruit. I would disagree having gone to school with several Catholic Social Workers, and having a degree in Behavioral Science myself.

Many of Catholic Social Workers believe in Liberation Theology, which was condemned in Fides et Ratio I believe. Many of them believe that disobedience to the Magisterium is O.K. This is the bad fruit that has to be coupled with their good fruit, in order to determine what fruits they are actually bearing, in toto.

 

[quintessential5]

You can also search the NAB version of the Bible at www.usccb.org. Biblegateway does have a more powerful search page though.

 

[Redeemerslove]

quintessential5:

You can also search the NAB version of the Bible at www.usccb.org. Biblegateway does have a more powerful search page though.

Yes, that’s why I use it. USCCB search engine is frustrating to me, and confusing. Biblegateway brings up the term quickly and concisely. Problem is with the variation of terms used between the different bibles.

I usually do the search on biblegateway, then cross-referrence to the NAB on USCCB.org What we need is an apologists online search tool for the NAB, RSV Catholic Edition, New Jerusalem Bible, and any other relevant translations that would be helpful to an Catholic Apologist.

In short, a Biblegateway for Catholics.

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

Try Matthew 7:15-23 & 12:33-37.

 

[chrisg93]

Redeemerslove,

Thanks for the insight. I’m a little rusty since I am a fallen away Catholic who has recently returned to the Church by the Grace of God.

I don’t even know what Liberation Theology is. Following are some things I have noticed since I’ve been back in the Church, tell me if I qualify for any kind of label…

1. I would never go back to receiving on the tongue. It violates “Jesus broke the Bread and gave it to his desciples”. Also, receiving on the tongue is gross and unnatural for the priest to have to do.
2. The Bible does contain errors, unexplainable difficulties and mistranslations.
3. It is a crying shame that more priests and laymen are not active in Pro-life activities. The Bishops don’t have the spirtual courage to deny The Eucharist to John Kerry.
4. I did receive general absolution one time at Mass and I thought it was a wonderful gift.
5. The teachings of the Church Fathers and the lives of the Saints are much richer than I ever imagined.

Do I qualify for a name

Many Thanks
Chris G

 

[Redeemerslove]

T.A.Stobie:

Try Matthew 7:15-23 & 12:33-37.

Well Tom, this is a nice passage. But The Church has more to say about this.

You’re going to tell me that by one fruit, the providing of physical, emotional and spiritual substinence - that you can judge a persons total fruits? This is an oversimplification in the extreme…

When the Church goes through a cause for sainthood process, it looks at the total life of the candidate. Not just what they did at work… They also look at the private life of the candidate, for one is to always be Christ, not just at work, but in one’s private life too.

Now do you want to open up the private lives of Catholic Social Workers? I dont think so.

From what fruits we can see, relevant to what virtues they display publically, we get a mixed bag. Not only feeing the poor, but also denying Church Teaching in some cases (e.g. contraception). Not only helping the emotionally hurt, but also feeling they can dissent from Church Teaching in good conscience.

As I said, a mixed bag - depending on the Catholic Social Worker scruitinized. I don’t stomach sophomoric arguments.

 

[chrisg93]

Thomas,

I really admire your SFO affilation and your wife’s dedication also. I noticed that you are seeking employement - I have gone from middle manager at 60K to a bagboy at the grocery store and I love it! Here is praying that you and your wife will find your station soon.

I’ll look up the Matt 7 & 12. Keep up your wonderful effort.

Chris G.

 

[Redeemerslove]

chrisg93:

Redeemerslove,

Thanks for the insight. I’m a little rusty since I am a fallen away Catholic who has recently returned to the Church by the Grace of God.

I don’t even know what Liberation Theology is. Following are some things I have noticed since I’ve been back in the Church, tell me if I qualify for any kind of label…

Why would you want a label? The reason you ask for one is beyond me, unless that label is Catholic and Christian.

1. I would never go back to receiving on the tongue. It violates “Jesus broke the Bread and gave it to his disciples”. Also, receiving on the tongue is gross and unnatural for the priest to have to do.

Well thats your choice, a choice allowed by the Church. You don’t have to recieve on the tongue, if you don’t want to. I don’t recieve on the tongue, unless I forgot to wash my hands.

1. The Bible does contain errors, unexplainable difficulties and mistranslations.

Well, Pius XII said that it did contain errors, called scribal errors. But this does not mean that the Church does not do a proper translation of what is before it nor that the oral Tradition does not contain all the missing or miscribed doctrine.

1. It is a crying shame that more priests and laymen are not active in Pro-life activities. The Bishops don’t have the spirtual courage to deny The Eucharist to John Kerry.

Well, many Catholics agree with this. I tend to be one, in many cases.

1. I did receive general absolution one time at Mass and I thought it was a wonderful gift.

That’s it your a swinger… a moderate. But be aware that you have to confess the same sins in a one-on-one confession, at a later time.

1. The teachings of the Church Fathers and the lives of the Saints are much richer than I ever imagined.

They are rich indeed.

You sound Catholic to me, I guess…but I’m no Pope or Bishop.

 

[Redeemerslove]

T.A.Stobie:

Try Matthew 7:15-23 & 12:33-37.

As an afterthough Matthew 12:33-37 talks about declaring a tree good or bad. And how long were the Pharisees around Jesus at that time? And didn’t they have access to him to question him and observe him?

The Causes of Saints have taken centuries in some cases - Joan of Arc took 5 centuries if I’m not mistaken. Do they have access to individuals? Do they the opportunity to cross-examine, visit and talk with these individuals?

Just to let you know, for a person to be declared a Saint, they have to be dead. Doesn’t leave much room for cross-examination does it?

Secondly, This passage talks about judging an individual, for they observed Christ for many years. I’m not making site visits to every Social Worker in the Country. No thank you.

 

[visualops]

Redeemerslove:

Yes, that’s why I use it. USCCB search engine is frustrating to me, and confusing. Biblegateway brings up the term quickly and concisely. Problem is with the variation of terms used between the different bibles.

I usually do the search on biblegateway, then cross-referrence to the NAB on USCCB.org What we need is an apologists online search tool for the NAB, RSV Catholic Edition, New Jerusalem Bible, and any other relevant translations that would be helpful to an Catholic Apologist.

In short, a Biblegateway for Catholics.

I don’t know if it’s what you are looking for, but have you ever used e-sword?

 

[visualops]

Redeemerslove:

Well thats your choice, a choice allowed by the Church. You don’t have to recieve on the tongue, if you don’t want to. I don’t recieve on the tongue, unless I forgot to wash my hands.

I understand it is proper to receive on the tongue or in the hands.
Having been absent from the Catholic Church, I missed the transition, and really only remember seeing the Host given on the tongue. Additionally, that’s the way in was done in the Greek Orthodox church I did attend.
IMHO, it just seems “wrong” to touch the Host with my hands.
The priest isn’t actually touching one’s tongue so I don’t see why people think it’s “gross”.
Then again I heard a woman telling our priest she had a problem with the priest touching a person’s head in a blessing (when they are unable to receieve Communion), and then continuing giving the Host. Her argument being it was unsanitary.
It seems to me one should have faith that whatever might be on someone’s head, wouldn’t be passed to another via the Host- the Host and/or the priest’s hands as disease carrier seems extreme. I am not ignorant of science, BTW.

 

[Redeemerslove]

visualops:

I understand it is proper to receive on the tongue or in the hands.

Having been absent from the Catholic Church, I missed the transition, and really only remember seeing the Host given on the tongue. Additionally, that’s the way in was done in the Greek Orthodox church I did attend.

So it was social conditioning?

IMHO, it just seems “wrong” to touch the Host with my hands.

Please take this is in the light it is intended: You touch the host with your dirty stinking mouth??? Oh my!!!

But seriously the human mouth is far dirtier than just cleaned hands. Im sure you can google up many articles on this topic. Try WebMD.

The priest isn’t actually touching one’s tongue so I don’t see why people think it’s “gross”.

Actually I see spittle on all the priests hands I have taken communion from, when they have distributed it on a tongue.

Then again I heard a woman telling our priest she had a problem with the priest touching a person’s head in a blessing (when they are unable to receieve Communion), and then continuing giving the Host. Her argument being it was unsanitary.
It seems to me one should have faith that whatever might be on someone’s head, wouldn’t be passed to another via the Host- the Host and/or the priest’s hands as disease carrier seems extreme. I am not ignorant of science, BTW.

Again the mouth is much more unsanitary than just washed hands.

 

[Redeemerslove]

visualops:

I don’t know if it’s what you are looking for, but have you ever used e-sword?

Dost thou? I don’t speak old english, when I’m being meticulous about interpreting a passage, I don’t need a foreign language to throw me off. I even hate using different translations, but I do because it’s a proper research technique.

 

[visualops]

Redeemerslove:

Dost thou? I don’t speak old english, when I’m being meticulous about interpreting a passage, I don’t need a foreign language to throw me off. I even hate using different translations, but I do because it’s a proper research technique.

I don’t know what you mean by that…
e-sword is simply a Bible study software.

 

[Redeemerslove]

visualops:

I don’t know what you mean by that…
e-sword is simply a Bible study software.

Well, maybe it’s the free version I have. Because it uses old english (Duoay-Rheimes I think).

 

[T.A.Stobie_SFO]

chrisg93:

I’ll look up the Matt 7 & 12.

I hope it helps answer your original question.

Thomas