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Dave27360
Guest
What is the Catholic view (scripture or tradition) on personal debt?
Example Mortgage, Auto, Student Loans, Etc.
Example Mortgage, Auto, Student Loans, Etc.
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It’s not really a moral issue for Catholics. The Church would say that interest rates on such lending products should be fair and other than that it’s more about common sense I think. Obviously taking a loan for a brand new car that you can’t really afford could be considered a sin of vanity but it would be more in the realm of imprudence. Some people use credit to maintain a lifestyle that they can barely afford but it’s non necessarily a “sin”.
I think the Catholic view on this focuses more on the structures in society that provide these loans and how fair they are rather than the person who is taking the loan.
I think the Catholic view on this focuses more on the structures in society that provide these loans and how fair they are rather than the person who is taking the loan.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
As Adam said, I don’t think there really is a “Catholic view.” It’s more a question of prudence than morality.
Certainly, be fair and honest in your financial dealings. Meaning, don’t borrow money that you aren’t likely to be able to pay back, and if you’re the lender, don’t charge an insane rate of interest. But that’s about it as far as I know.
Yeah, that’s it really. I reckon the real moral aspect of this comes high up the chain when senior bankers and legislators are devising policies for who should be able to borrow and what criteria should be used to determine whether they can pay back. In my country there has been a situation for years where it is increasingly difficult to get a mortgage on an average income. I think the real moral pressure is on legislators and bankers to make rules that allow ordinary people to be able to avail of financial products.
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RolandThompsonGunner
Guest
You’re in Ireland, right? Is the housing market there still nuts? I remember a friend telling me that in Ireland even a house in a semi-rural area is extremely pricy.
I live in the US and because we’re such a geographically large country the average cost of a home varies widely. We just bought our first home in a really high cost of living area and every day i curse my friends who live in small towns.
I live in the US and because we’re such a geographically large country the average cost of a home varies widely. We just bought our first home in a really high cost of living area and every day i curse my friends who live in small towns.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Personal debt is fine as long as you can reasonably pay it. Don’t take on too much and don’t deal with predatory lenders.
A just man pays his debts. If you don’t reasonably think you’ll be able to make the payments, then don’t take out the loan. It’s a common sense thing.
I and most of the other Catholics i know have had loans such as you describe, and paid them off. Also credit cards and the like. It’s not a big deal and the Church doesn’t go around lecturing us on it.
A just man pays his debts. If you don’t reasonably think you’ll be able to make the payments, then don’t take out the loan. It’s a common sense thing.
I and most of the other Catholics i know have had loans such as you describe, and paid them off. Also credit cards and the like. It’s not a big deal and the Church doesn’t go around lecturing us on it.
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Andrea_Canada
Guest
I don’t think debt is the issue such as mananaging money. We live in a societly that where everyone would love to have no debt and a big fat bank account. However, as a Catholic, is it really fair for me to earn thousands of dollars in interest every year and not feed my starving neighbour?
If the money is smart debt ie car loan so you can get to work, God will provide. If the money is debt to keep up with the Jones, I doubt the true peace of Christ will result
If the money is smart debt ie car loan so you can get to work, God will provide. If the money is debt to keep up with the Jones, I doubt the true peace of Christ will result
Tis_Bearself
Patron
As a Catholic in today’s world, we support charities and social welfare programs in order to do this. Obviously if there were a bunch of starving people on our doorstep, for instance due to a natural disaster or a war situation, we would do our best to help. However, today’s reality is that there are very few “starving” people around in Western society, and those who are indeed starving are often suffering due to some other malady, such as drug addiction, rather than due to a lack of available food.
It was a lot simpler back in the days when the streets were full of genuinely hungry people due to limited food supplies and no social safety net. I could take the money I would have used for my own dinner and feed a bunch of hungry people. Or I could share food with a hungry neighbor, like make them a dinner plate from my own family’s meal. Nowadays those people are likely to be receiving EBT/ SNAP benefits through the state and if necessary, stopping off at the food bank. Even when food is donated (for example, some supermarkets and fast food will donate food that is close to expiration time), if it’s perishable a good bit of it often goes to waste because people simply aren’t hungry enough to want to eat it.
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Dave27360
Guest
Regarding interest rates the main thing I have heard the church teach against though not too often are payday loans which have extremely high interest rates.
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Andrea_Canada
Guest
Sadly you haven’t met some of my neighbours. The second they get their welfare cheque spending it on their hair and the kids are hungry. Or homeless people sitting outside the Walmart. The pan handle and they go buy greasy fries. I buy them yogurt and fruit. Broke my heart when one of them had to tell me it hurt his teeth to bite into an apple. So I got him a banada insteadAndrea_Canada:
As a Catholic in today’s world, we support charities and social welfare programs in order to do this. Obviously if there were a bunch of starving people on our doorstep, for instance due to a natural disaster or a war situation, we would do our best to help. However, today’s reality is that there are very few “starving” people around in Western society, and those who are indeed starving are often suffering due to some other malady, such as drug addiction, rather than due to a lack of available food.
Yes. That’s right. It’s not so much that the houses are universally pricey. Cost varies greatly from upwards of a million euro for a well located Dublin city centre apartment, to 100,000 for a semi-detached house in a rural area. It’s more the mortgage rules here make it very difficult to obtain a mortgage. Large deposits are required and years of paying rent is not taken into account at all by banks. Successive governments have not been willing/able to tackle this issue and so it goes on. It’s a similar story with car insurance here. We pay a lot more than our continental European neighbours for the same product from the same company.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I live up the street from a homeless shelter.
The people are not underfed or hungry.
I have occasionally bought a homeless person something to eat, such as a coffee drink at Starbucks when they were all allowed to sit in there all day. The last time I did this, I bought the person two drinks because she didn’t like the first one she was served.
Both our church, the Baptist church, and other places in the area have food pantries. They get most of their food from the local supermarkets and other businesses. The churches here will sometimes have food drives for things like baby formula or peanut butter for children’s meals. You can also donate money. A religious order not far away also runs a soup kitchen and I have donated to that as well.
The local convenience store donates several dozen hot sandwiches every week because after a certain hour, they cannot be sold, and a lady comes in and loads them into bags and takes them to the shelter for whoever wants to have some.
Like I said, people around here are not hungry. If they are, it’s generally because they have some other condition, such as a drug addiction or a mental health issue, that interferes with their ability to feed themselves or obtain the available food.
I do not normally donate money to homeless people, I have done it from time to time but they are not using it for food, let’s put it that way.
I am sure there may be poor areas in the country, but you note yourself that your neighbors don’t lack money for food, they’re instead blowing the money on non-necessities engaging in child neglect (which is why we have school breakfast and lunch programs and PBJ drives so their kids will have meals). Also, if a homeless person wants greasy fries, that may be his joy in life and it’s a bit patronizing to insist that he must eat what you think is healthy.
I’m muting this now because we’ve already had many threads on the homeless and poor and there are hundreds of opinions out there and I don’t think it’s necessary to rehash them all again.
The people are not underfed or hungry.
I have occasionally bought a homeless person something to eat, such as a coffee drink at Starbucks when they were all allowed to sit in there all day. The last time I did this, I bought the person two drinks because she didn’t like the first one she was served.
Both our church, the Baptist church, and other places in the area have food pantries. They get most of their food from the local supermarkets and other businesses. The churches here will sometimes have food drives for things like baby formula or peanut butter for children’s meals. You can also donate money. A religious order not far away also runs a soup kitchen and I have donated to that as well.
The local convenience store donates several dozen hot sandwiches every week because after a certain hour, they cannot be sold, and a lady comes in and loads them into bags and takes them to the shelter for whoever wants to have some.
Like I said, people around here are not hungry. If they are, it’s generally because they have some other condition, such as a drug addiction or a mental health issue, that interferes with their ability to feed themselves or obtain the available food.
I do not normally donate money to homeless people, I have done it from time to time but they are not using it for food, let’s put it that way.
I am sure there may be poor areas in the country, but you note yourself that your neighbors don’t lack money for food, they’re instead blowing the money on non-necessities engaging in child neglect (which is why we have school breakfast and lunch programs and PBJ drives so their kids will have meals). Also, if a homeless person wants greasy fries, that may be his joy in life and it’s a bit patronizing to insist that he must eat what you think is healthy.
I’m muting this now because we’ve already had many threads on the homeless and poor and there are hundreds of opinions out there and I don’t think it’s necessary to rehash them all again.
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