Catholic vs Catholic

[Strider]

alfredo:

Does the Catholic Church still follow this rule of St. Paul at this point in time or has it essentially changed its teaching on this point. For example, at the local Catholic Church here, women give the readings all the time at Mass, and sometimes they even give the sermon (or is it called homily?). For example, a while ago, a (female) professor from the local college gave the sermon (or is it supposed to be called homily) on how women have been discriminated against by the Catholic Church for the last 2000 years and why the Church needs to change its male only hierarchical structure. I know at SSPX, women are not allowed to give the readings at Mass, but they have been excommunicated. And SSPX follows the rules before Vatican II on this question. So it looks like the Church that does follow the preVatican II rules and the Bible and St. Paul on this point (on women keeping silent in the Church) has been excommunicated by the Vatican.

chadwilliams is absolutely correct. This is a major abuse and should be reported to the local bishop. You should, out of fairness, speak to the priest first, though.
As far as the SSPX is concerned, there are plenty of threads about those folks. Just go to the search function.

 

[AmberDale]

Women do some of our readings, but the Gospel is read by the Priest. Then the priest does the homily during mass.

I know there has been a time when someone other than a priest has got up to talk about stuff - like Renew, or other ministries but it wasn’t a homily.

 

[AmberDale]

ChristopherMich:

Women also cover their head upon entering the Church. They are also not allowed to wear pants.

I think head coverings is a wonderful way to show respect and honor in the presence of Christ. You are supposed to have your head covered and where skirts (past your knees) in the presence of the Pope so why not at Mass where Christ is?

BTW: Whas is SSPX?

 

[chadwilliams]

alfredo:

What then would you call it, when the priest does not give a sermon, but in his place a lady steps up and gives a talk?

I call it an abuse! If anyone other than a priest or decon comes to the ambo following the Gospel reading and starts talking, it is an abuse. The priest needs to come up and at least say something to the effect of why this lay person is going to come up and speak.

Perhaps it is not a “homily”, but in any case, the rule of St. Paul and the Bible on women keeping silent in the Church has not been observed.

This is discipline, not doctrine, as is unmarried clergy and abstainence from meat on all Fridays throughout the year. Discipline can change…doctrine cannot.

Even if you don’t think that this is right, still, ladies given the readings all the time in the local Catholic Churches here, and I haven’t seen any objection.

The Catholic Church has in her power the Authority to allow or change any discipline that She sees fit. Who am I to disagree??

In the excommunicated Churches, such as SSPX, ladies do not give talks or readings.

Again, I emphasise, at the Indult Tridentine Mass (in other words, permitted by Rome) ladies do not give talks or readings either! It is because in that Liturgy, only the Priest, concelebrants, deacons and altar boys are even allowed in the sanctuary! Man/woman doesn’t matter! If you are a layperson, you cannot be at the altar!

 

[ChristopherMich]

SSPX is the Society of Saint Pius X…

I don’t know how many of you attended the Mass under SSPX. I however, grew up at St. Mary’s Church in Goldsboro, NC. The society (or rather Bishop LaSance (sp?)) was excommunicated for ordaining Priests against the Pope’s wishes. This was in 1989.

However, the Mass is still practiced by the Churches under SSPX. According to my Priest, their orders are still valid, and the Mass is still valid. Although, I don’t fully understand why.

My parents still believe that the Church (and it’s leaders) were not excommunicated. “Once a Priest, Always a Priest” my father says. However, we stopped attending Mass in 1987, only to return (my parents) in 1999. I returned in 2004, not knowing about the excommunication order. Mass is practiced every other week in Goldsboro, and every other week in Raleigh. Father Novack is the Priest, who flies in from Kansas each week for the Mass.

 

[MariaG]

Sometimes the best way with dealing with relatives who really won’t listen to you anyway, or those who are just on a tirade, is a simple

I disagree.

It allows you to stand up for the truth without getting into an argument. Usually they will repeat their argument. Just shake your head and say “I disagree” again. Rarely will these people want to discuss this, they are just on a rant.

If they insist you talk about it, just shake your head and say I disagree with you but I don’t want to get into with you because your mind is already made up and so is mine.

However, you have planted a seed of discussion for the furture. If then a relative starts a conversation Why do you not think female priests are a good thing? Then you know they are looking for discussion instead of a rant.

This seems to help me. I hope it will be of some help to you.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Gratias_Grace]

AmberDale:

You know, she really is a great lady. But sometimes her way of thinking makes me go “what?”
I am only 23, am freshly Catholic. Meaning just baptized this Easter. I don’t know everything, but I know what is being taught in the church. As of now, women are not to be ordained (which I agree with).
Priests are not to be married.
Now if the church changes some of these things, then I guess we go with it. But the way she says some things really bothers me. I do love her, she sometimes sounds like she is bordering on heresy.

Speak out with “antie”. Sit down and think about what answers she may come up with and be prepared.

Tell her that a lot of things have been misunderstood after Vatikan II. Some catholics want to be “as good as the protestants”. They are ashamed of the Church because they think it’s oldfashioned. Remember 50 - 60 years old ladies grew up with the womens movment that laughed at everything traditional.

Tell her (in a calm voice and with a smile) that she is the one that is oldfashioned, now.

Play the “Proud to be Catholic” to her:

www.catholicexchange.com/bday/

Married priests will not be good for us. They have kids and don’t have time for us whan we need them. The sex-scandale in Church is not to be atributed to celibacy, but to pedohilia and immaturity in the priests.

**The twelve first apostles were male ** and after them we have had apostolic succesion, male apostle followed by male apostle.

The Church is the Bride of Christ. The Bride can’t have a woman as a Bridegroom; that sends the wrong signals …

Homosexuals are to be treated with respect and dignity, but they are not allowed to practice in same-sex relationships.

Tell her that catholic homosexuals that want to live in accordance with the Churchs teachings joyfully welcome the new Holy Father, Benedict XVI !!

couragerc.net/

 

[caroljm36]

Yep, been there done that. I’m 56 and often surprised how liberal even older people are, people in their 70s even. Looking back I realize what an emotional strain the 60s were for everyone. I knew a lot of people my age and older, AND their parents, who tried to hold on to their traditional views through all the cultural storm, and often they would come to a point, after stubbornly staying “square” or “straight” for years after their peers, when they at last gave in and just chucked everything overboard. Usually these people would become the biggest hippies/slackers/relativists around, when the rest of us were recovering finally.

So I am not surprised anymore when someone quite elderly starts spouting the liberal line. And people think married & women priests “make sense” but they have not thought it through or heard all the arguments.

 

[alfredo]

chadwilliams:

If anyone other than a priest or decon comes to the ambo following the Gospel reading and starts talking, it is an abuse. The priest needs to come up and at least say something to the effect of why this lay person is going to come up and speak.

I wonder if you have ever been to a Communion Service where the priest is not present. Recently, I was at one in the local Church and everything at the altar was done by a lady. On my inquiry, I was told that the Communion service had been given the official approval by Cardinal Ratzinger.

The point I am addressing is the following:

RonWI:
As for women priests, we have 1 Cor 14, which would make it rather difficult for women to serve as priests:

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

The word of God is what you should tell her.

It looks to me like the Vatican today rejects this teaching of St. Paul, which is called here: “The word of God”. Since it looks like after Vatican II, the Roman Catholic Church has rejected this teaching of St. Paul, I don’t see how this teaching of St. Paul can be used to support the opinion on no women priests.