Catholic wedding and baptismal churn

[rgreene]

Hello all, and thanks for your thoughts & advice.

My fiancée is a practicing Catholic, and her faith is important to her, so she wants to have a Catholic church wedding / mass. I am a non-practicing Methodist, but during my childhood my family practiced strictly for the period covering my pre-teen and teen years. Because of this, I’m fairly certain I was baptized; however, I don’t have any official document to prove this.

I talked to my dad regarding this and he said “I don’t remember, that would have been right after your birth, and your mom was in charge of that sort of thing”. But, my mother is deceased. My mom’s sister also doesn’t remember anything about when and where it might have occurred. All of my grandparents are also deceased (I’m in my 40s!!).

I haven’t exhausted all possible research avenues yet, but I think the end is coming soon. I mean, I could start trolling all the Methodist churches in Lubbock, but it’s not exactly a small town!

What kind of other options would you folks recommend to meet the requirements of the Catholic church? Should I look at re-baptism? (The Methodist church also seems to mirror the Catholic church stand that baptism can only be done once per person, so this may not be possible anyway…) Can something like a re-affirmation of baptism be done?

 

[_Jenn]

Does your dad at least remember which church it was you all attended? Are you an only child? If not, any chance siblings might remember the name/address of the church?

 

[Brenda_V]

Ask your dad where you lived when you were born and start with the Methodist churches closest to that address. Then if that doesn’t bring any results, find out where your grandparents lived at the time and check the churches closest to them, then work you way out from there.

If you get no results then talk to the Priest who is helping you with marriage preparation and get his advise.

Brenda V.

 

[1ke]

If you cannot find a baptismal certificate, you can complete an affidavit of baptism.

However, for that you would have to have *someone *who witnessed it vouch that you were baptized. So, you can certainly contact one of the Methodist churches in Lubbock and talk to them. They likely do keep records since they baptize infants, and might have some sort of structure by which they could inquire of other churches in the area. Start with a Methodist pastor and let him guide you on the best way to search for your baptismal records.

If you cannot find any record of baptism at all, then instead of applying for permission for a mixed marriage your fiancee can apply for a dispensation from “disparity of cult.” Either way, your lack of baptism will in no way prevent you from being married.

When you ask what we would recommend to “meet the requirements of the Catholic Church” can you be a little more specific? What requirements are you referencing? The Church doesn’t require you to be baptized in order to marry a Catholic in the Catholic Church.

Of course, if you **desire **baptism, I would recommend the Catholic Church, not the Methodist church. But, of course, that would require study and commitment on your part. I hope you and your fiancee have discussed how you will practice religion once married, how you will raise children, etc.

And, I hope you’ve discussed **why **you are a “non practicing” Christian. Do you not believe in Christ and his teachings? If you don’t, then of course you should **not **seek baptism. If you do want to live an active faith life in the service of Jesus Christ, then maybe you should look at your wife’s faith tradition. A unified household is certainly much better for children. It is a lot of work when a family is spiritually divided. Not impossible, but much in the way of compromise to make it work.

 

[EasterJoy]

As far as I know, couples with a dispensation for disparity of cult (one non-baptized) may still marry in a Catholic church, but don’t have nuptial Masses.

If you are not certain you were ever baptized, but believe you may have been, there is such a thing as a provinsional baptism, which is conducted with the recognition that it is being done “just in case”. That, however, would require that you actually want to join the Church. Generally speaking, Protestant ministers are also not wild about baptizing adults who aren’t fully committed to live a Christian life in their congregations. It isn’t something done so that some unbeliever’s spouse can have Mass at her wedding. Life doesn’t get any more real than baptism; it is the opposite of an empty ritual.

I am married to a baptized non-Catholic who was not educated in or brought up to observe the faith in which he was baptized. (OK, they celebrated Christmas.) He is extremely supportive of my faith, does his part in educating our children as Catholics–which is to say, he teaches them the faith as a fact, not as their mother’s opinion–and often joins us at Mass. It is still difficult. Please consider very carefullly what you are committing to: that is, even if you don’t have your wife’s faith, it will be your life’s work to support it fully and share it as well as you can.

As for your immediate problem, ask you dad what your parent’s address in Lubbock was when you would have been baptized. Better yet, ask if he remembers at least the general neighborhood of the church they attended at that time. If he only remembers his own address(es), then start asking at the oldest Methodist congregations first, and the ones closest to where they lived. You may find that there were far fewer of them 40 years ago than there are now. You might also be surprised how quickly you can learn this kind of thing with a little help from the internet. My husband was baptized in a local community church near his home. They still had a record of his baptism, and were able and willing to provide a letter attesting that it took place. (Be aware that you might not have been an infant at the time, though. It isn’t unusual for families who attend sporadically to have two or three kids “done” at the same time.)

Good luck!

 

[rgreene]

Hi 1ke and EasterJoy – thank you so much for your thoughtful replies. I really appreciate them.

I guess maybe “non-practicing Methodist” was a little vague. I simply meant that I don’t belong to a Methodist church, so I don’t have the contacts within that church to make any inroads. Also, as EJ mentions, it makes it harder to do a provisional baptism since I don’t have a church at which I’ve been a long term member.

I am a practicing Christian, in that I’ve attended her church weekly since I’ve known her. I don’t want to appear disingenuous; although I felt I could embrace Christian principles and live a Christian life without being a member of a church as a single – as a family (even a family of two), I think it’s important to have the community framework, and the shared external experience of our religion. I’m predisposed towards RICA in the future, but I don’t think a choice of faith is to be undertaken lightly, even among variants of Christianity – and certainly not “just to get married”.

I know there are many ways to get married, all the way to a purely civil ceremony – but she and I both believe that marriage is a sacred, religious rite. We both strongly believe we want to be united before God rather than just before men. So, this is important to both of us, and the reason for the extra effort rather than just going the “easier” route of disparity of cult.

It’s always been a little sad being a non-Catholic in a Catholic church, but it is really dismal, for want of a paper that my parents didn’t keep, to slide all the way to non-Christian unbeliever!

 

[EasterJoy]

Hi 1ke and EasterJoy – thank you so much for your thoughtful replies. I really appreciate them.

I guess maybe “non-practicing Methodist” was a little vague. I simply meant that I don’t belong to a Methodist church, so I don’t have the contacts within that church to make any inroads. Also, as EJ mentions, it makes it harder to do a provisional baptism since I don’t have a church at which I’ve been a long term member.

I am a practicing Christian, in that I’ve attended her church weekly since I’ve known her. I don’t want to appear disingenuous; although I felt I could embrace Christian principles and live a Christian life without being a member of a church as a single – as a family (even a family of two), I think it’s important to have the community framework, and the shared external experience of our religion. I’m predisposed towards RICA in the future, but I don’t think a choice of faith is to be undertaken lightly, even among variants of Christianity – and certainly not “just to get married”.

I know there are many ways to get married, all the way to a purely civil ceremony – but she and I both believe that marriage is a sacred, religious rite. We both strongly believe we want to be united before God rather than just before men. So, this is important to both of us, and the reason for the extra effort rather than just going the “easier” route of disparity of cult.

It’s always been a little sad being a non-Catholic in a Catholic church, but it is really dismal, for want of a paper that my parents didn’t keep, to slide all the way to non-Christian unbeliever!

Well, look at the bright side: at least by the time you’ve pursued this to the end, you will know for a fact that you are in fact baptized. Since to be a Christian means to become a part of the Body of Christ, not just to embrace principles or live according to a particular code, this is a very important point to pursue.

I’m betting that with a little more information from your dad, you will be able to find out what church your parents attended when you were small. Once you’ve done that, the chances are very high that they will be able to give you a definitive answer.

Whether you were baptized as a Methodist or not, though, I hope you will be guided to go on to receive all the sacraments of initiation–baptism, Eucharist, and confirmation–and so become a fully-initiated member of the Church. I feel very strongly that this is not something anyone should ever be pressured to do. I mean only that, wishing as I do to be able to share full communion in the Church with my own husband, I wish the same for your wife and you.

 

[1ke]

I know there are many ways to get married, all the way to a purely civil ceremony – but she and I both believe that marriage is a sacred, religious rite. We both strongly believe we want to be united before God rather than just before men. So, this is important to both of us, and the reason for the extra effort rather than just going the “easier” route of disparity of cult.

I hope you are able to prove your baptism, or have an affidavit of baptism if you can find some witnesses. If not, though, don’t let that get you down. You can still be married in the Catholic Church. I wouldn’t look at a disparity of cult dispensation as the “easier” way-- it just is what it is. You aren’t a miracle worker. If you can’t obtain records, and no one remembers you being baptized, then you’ll just have to go with that.

 

[NHInsider]

Hello all, and thanks for your thoughts & advice.

My fiancée is a practicing Catholic, and her faith is important to her, so she wants to have a Catholic church wedding / mass. I am a non-practicing Methodist, but during my childhood my family practiced strictly for the period covering my pre-teen and teen years. Because of this, I’m fairly certain I was baptized; however, I don’t have any official document to prove this.

I talked to my dad regarding this and he said “I don’t remember, that would have been right after your birth, and your mom was in charge of that sort of thing”. But, my mother is deceased. My mom’s sister also doesn’t remember anything about when and where it might have occurred. All of my grandparents are also deceased (I’m in my 40s!!).

I haven’t exhausted all possible research avenues yet, but I think the end is coming soon. I mean, I could start trolling all the Methodist churches in Lubbock, but it’s not exactly a small town!

What kind of other options would you folks recommend to meet the requirements of the Catholic church? Should I look at re-baptism? (The Methodist church also seems to mirror the Catholic church stand that baptism can only be done once per person, so this may not be possible anyway…) Can something like a re-affirmation of baptism be done?

I realize this thread petered out a while ago but for what it’s worth - a couple of suggestions if you’re still not certain. (These are the kinds of things a genealogy buff thinks of. )

I presume that you would remember if you had undergone “believer’s baptism” - which is to say after you were old enough to profess the faith, generally no younger than 7? But Methodists do practice infant baptism as well, which you would obviously not recall.

Someone mentioned asking older relatives - grandparents, aunts and uncles, older siblings - if they recall your having been christened. You’ve indicated that the significant people are all deceased. Do you have any recollection of a friend of your mother’s who was involved in your early years? (Possibly a godmother that you don’t know about.) Another place to look is in any baby books or other such memorabilia your mother may have kept. Christenings are almost always an occasion for cards and photographs.

Also scout around and see if you can turn up anything representing a family Bible - not necessarily a huge tome that sat on the hall table, but even your grandmother’s Bible or some other older copy. Bibles often have pages in them for recording family data, and even when they don’t, people tend to record sacramental events in them - inside the cover, or if there are blank pages between the cover and the text.

Having said all of that, if your father has no recollection of your having been baptised it seems relatively likely that you were not, and at minimum a provisional baptism would be appropriate.

 

[puzzleannie]

HelloWhat kind of other options would you folks recommend to meet the requirements of the Catholic church? Should I look at re-baptism? (The Methodist church also seems to mirror the Catholic church stand that baptism can only be done once per person, so this may not be possible anyway…) Can something like a re-affirmation of baptism be done?

you do not have to meet any requirements to marry a Catholic. You do not have to be baptized, you do not have to become Catholic, you do not have to participate in RCIA. You will be strongly urged to participate in marriage classes, possibly a retreat or meetings with sponsor couples, and you will generally find it a very positive experience, but it is the Catholic party who is bound by Church law. She must get a dispensation to marry a non-Catholic, must demonstrate that her own faith is not endangered by doing so, and promise to accept the children God sends you and do her best to raise them in the faith. You must be advised of her obligation and all that she is promising, including the part about being open to children, and the explanation of those promises are part of the marriage prep.

The question of your baptism arises in determining whether or not the marriage will be sacramental, but assuming you are both free to marry and she abides by Catholic laws on marriage, it will be valid regardless. Whenever two baptized persons marry, the Catholic Church considers that marriage to be sacramental–an efficacious sign, instituted by Christ to impart his sanctifying grace. If in the future you should decide to consider becoming Catholic, you would do your best to establish the fact of your baptism. I don’t know if Methodists keep records, you could ask your dad what church they belonged to when you were born and check. If this is a denomination that routinely baptizes infants you would probably be conditionally baptized if the fact cannot be established. But this is not a condition for marriage it would only arise if you decide to become Catholic.