Catholicism and salvation

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  1. Protestants claim that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all wrong. Also, they say that honoring mary or saints is idolatry. Was there anyone who claimed like these in the early church?
  2. Is Orthodoxy a dangerous heresy?
  3. If someone(Catholic) converts to orthodoxy since orthodoxy seems more biblical, does he or she go to hell?
  4. If someone is baptized in the catholic church but does not believe some of the catholic doctrine, does he or she go to hell?
 
  1. Some Protestants make those claims. By no means all. Only someone having a very thorough knowledge of the Early Church Fathers would be qualified to answer your question.
  2. No.
  3. No.
  4. It depends. You’d need to discuss your doubts with a priest.
 
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We cannot say with certainty whether some particular person would go to hell or not for some particular act. It would depend on many factors, including the overall facts of the situation, the person’s intention and mental state when doing the act, and God’s judgment and mercy.

A Catholic who has doubt should remain in the Church while prayerfully either trying to resolve the doubt, or possibly just setting it aside if it is not affecting their daily behavior and they are not leading others to sin. Example: If I doubt the Church teaching on priestly celibacy, but I’m not a priest myself, not in a romantic relationship with a priest, and not trying to convince others that priestly celibacy is wrong, then I could just set it aside and say, “Lord, I don’t fully understand the Church teaching on priestly celibacy, but I accept the authority of your Church.” Obviously if I were a priest who wanted to get married, then my doubt about priestly celibacy would not be so easily dismissed.

A baptized Catholic who leaves the Catholic Church is committing a sin.
 
  1. Only heretics.
  2. No, but it doesn’t contain the fullness of divine truth.
  3. In what way does it “seem more Biblical”. Anyways, since they have valid sacraments, I wouldn’t say so- but you’re missing out by not being in the Church of Jesus Christ.
  4. Hard to say- but there’s something to be said about rejecting the authority which Jesus has established.
 
James1231 said:
Is Orthodoxy a dangerous heresy?
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“Orthodoxy” is the opposite of “heresy”; Orthodoxy by definition is not and cannot be heresy.

The original meaning of Heresy is having an opinion that is at variance from the established standards (at variance from the Orthodox doctrine). It is private choice, private interpretation, that is at odds with the established authority.

Orthodoxy is simply following established (authorized) authority.

Remember, Jesus “authorized” Simon to be “Rock”, “authorized” Rock (Peter) and the others to bind and loose doctrine, forgive and not forgive sins, give people citizenship in the Kingdom (Church) or otherwise not baptize those who did not believe, teach (authorize) their successors. Orthodoxy is going along with this.

John Martin
 
  1. I have no idea.
  2. I wouldn’t say its dangerous. It’s in schism with the Catholic Church. Generally, they seem to see more problems with Catholicism than we see in Orthodoxy.
  3. Christ warns us not to make these sorts of judgments.
We are judged according to what we’ve been given. It’s about our sincerity in pursuing the Truth and our obedience to the Truth. It is rooted in our love for God.

Since we all come from different backgrounds and life experiences, it is not our place to judge where someone is on their spiritual journey. We can only point to the Truth, recognizing our personal fallibility rooted in ignorance and the limitations of our life experience. We will always be an imperfect arrow. But as Christ says “My sheep hear my voice and they follow me.” So sincere pursuers of truth will recognize truth within the muck if it is loud enough. Sometimes the muck is so loud that we think we’re proclaiming the truth to people when we’re only preaching all the muck we’ve encased the truth in.

The Catholic Church claims to contain the fullness of Truth. The Orthodox church claims the same thing and considers the Catholic Church in serious error. The reformation was rooted in viewing the hierarchy as corrupting Christianity for power, but not all Protestant denominations really see the divisions within Christianity as that significant.
  1. Salvation isn’t about passing a theology test and answering all the correct answers. There is a hierarchy of authority of Church teaching. For instance, we are not required to believe in the Fatima apparation of the Blessed Virgin, but we do no wrong in believing in it. But then we have dogmas like the Immaculate Conception, the Trinity, etc that aren’t up for debate.
If we’re struggling with these teachings, the big thing is that we don’t start going around acting as a teacher of Catholicism as we argue why a Catholic dogma is false. But sincere belief is more than silencing yourself. And most certainly it isn’t shaming yourself for your doubts to try to coerce your mind to believe something you don’t. That doesn’t work.

What you must do is continue on your spiritual journey prayerfully. Indeed, you can humbly admit you struggle with a doctrine or dogma without going on a crusade to attack the Church’s authority. And sometimes we struggle with the scandals in the Church which can make us question the Church’s authority. To be Catholic is to pray about it and to center ourselves on pursuing Christ who is the Truth. A sincere pursuer of truth doesn’t bury their head in the sand out of fear of Hell. A sincere pursuer of Truth is not afraid of their ignorance and fallibility.
 
James1231 said:
  1. Protestants claim that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all wrong. Also, they say that honoring mary or saints is idolatry. Was there anyone who claimed like these in the early church?
  2. Is Orthodoxy a dangerous heresy?
  3. If someone(Catholic) converts to orthodoxy since orthodoxy seems more biblical, does he or she go to hell?
  4. If someone is baptized in the catholic church but does not believe some of the catholic doctrine, does he or she go to hell?
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  1. You are asking an interesting question but for clarification would you identify what you mean by “early church?” For instance, the Church in the Biblical record or say from 200 to 500 AD, or in the first 1500 years?
 
James1231 said:
Protestants claim that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all wrong. Also, they say that honoring mary or saints is idolatry. Was there anyone who claimed like these in the early church?
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As someone has said not all protestants claim this, ipso facto not all protestants are on the same page with this.

Peace!!!
 
James1231 said:
  • If someone(Catholic) converts to orthodoxy since orthodoxy seems more biblical, does he or she go to hell?
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Our family was Catholic & we converted to the Orthodox Church. After more than 16 years as Orthodox Christians, we’re officially reverting back to Catholicism next month.

It was a very long journey, but now that we’ve lived and experienced Orthodoxy, we know the Papacy, especially Papal Infallibility, is truly a gift from God to His Church. The excommunications of the Greek Orthodox Church & Catholicism were officially lifted in 1965, but regardless of how little it is that still separates the two Churches, we no longer want to be separated from full communion with the Pope.

We had to try it ourselves, before knowing without a doubt Catholicism contains the fullness of truth.
 
The apostolic church did not have your list of issues. Those doctrinal stances evolved centuries later by people outside of the apostolic norms.
 
James1231 said:
  1. Protestants claim that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all wrong. Also, they say that honoring mary or saints is idolatry. Was there anyone who claimed like these in the early church?
  2. Is Orthodoxy a dangerous heresy?
  3. If someone(Catholic) converts to orthodoxy since orthodoxy seems more biblical, does he or she go to hell?
  4. If someone is baptized in the catholic church but does not believe some of the catholic doctrine, does he or she go to hell?
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So, we Catholics know that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all good. There were many that dissented from the Catholic church teaching from the earliest days until the present. The prevalence of sin is from the time of Adam and Eve.

A Catholic is bound to remain a Catholic. Heresy, Apostacy, Schism, and Incredulity are serious matters.

Catechism
1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification594 or immediately,595 – or immediate and everlasting damnation.596
At the evening of life, we shall be judged on our love.597
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1861 Mortal sin is a radical possibility of human freedom, as is love itself. It results in the loss of charity and the privation of sanctifying grace, that is, of the state of grace. If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, it causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices for ever, with no turning back. However, although we can judge that an act is in itself a grave offense, we must entrust judgment of persons to the justice and mercy of God.

2088 The first commandment requires us to nourish and protect our faith with prudence and vigilance, and to reject everything that is opposed to it. … Schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11 …
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adf417 said:
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James1231:
Protestants claim that priesthood, sacraments and mass, intercession of the saints, apostolic succession are all wrong. Also, they say that honoring mary or saints is idolatry. Was there anyone who claimed like these in the early church?
Click to expand...
As someone has said not all protestants claim this, ipso facto not all protestants are on the same page with this.

Peace!!!
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Hence, using the term Protestant regarding doctrine or practice is folly.
 
Many protestants say those things. I am Anglican,but becoming Catholic. My church honors Our lady too some point,but still think Catholics are on the verge of worshiping her. We also have the Saints,so not all protestants say these things. Orthodox is not full on heresy,but is definitely lacking,but I do not believe they will go to hell. As to the last question it depends on the doctrine. If it is a dogma or about the Eucharist then yes.
 
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