Catholicism in Mexico?

[Raider_Red]

I ask this question out of pure ignorance on the subject and really hope some of you all can help me out. I’m in the process of converting to the RCC and while talking to my father, a very active evangelical missionary to many Spanish speaking countries, he continues to ask me about the “Catholic” churches he is around when he is in these areas. In his experience, he sees and has even been to services where the local customs (parades of the dead, worship and not just veneration of Mary, as well as many other examples he gives me) seem to override and even take center stage to a point. He says that he and his missionary groups are out sharing the Gospel in areas that most are “Catholic” but the Gospel seems to be foreign. I don’t really have anything to say to it because I don’t have much experience other than being in Mexico a few times and I kind of know where he’s coming from in a sense. I have many Hispanic friends that this is foreign to them and am not by any means trying to throw a blanket statement out there but just want some clarity. I experience the Gospel every week in the Catholic parish I attend as well as other parishes I’ve visited, but I don’t know how things are done elsewhere So I guess what I’m trying to ask is:

1. How do you know if the churches my dad is speaking of are actually in full-communion with Rome (because I figured this might be one of the answers to his experience)?
2. How much freedom is given in the Mass to allow little “T” traditions in them and where is the line drawn?
3. Are the local bishops in each area responsible for making sure that the teachings and practices are orthodox and correct?
4. What words would you give someone like my dad, who on 20+ occasions has experienced the “Catholic” church in a way that “appears” to be off and the Gospel “seems to be lost”?

My dad is a wonderful man and he has been very open and hasn’t discouraged me from joining the RCC. We have had wonderful talks over the last six months and even though I don’t see him converting anytime soon, I have seen him go from anti-Catholic to having an appreciation for the Church but at the same time a little weary of it and it has to do with his experiences as a missionary and his direct contact with churches in Mexico and Latin America with the “Catholic?/catholic?” stamped on their front doors.

I want to end this by saying I am not trying to say the Roman Catholic Churches in Mexico or Latin America are doing anything wrong or are trying to take a stab. I’m just concerned and have questions and any answers would help me and my dad out a lot.

 

[Madaglan]

I ask this question out of pure ignorance on the subject and really hope some of you all can help me out. I’m in the process of converting to the RCC and while talking to my father, a very active evangelical missionary to many Spanish speaking countries, he continues to ask me about the “Catholic” churches he is around when he is in these areas. In his experience, he sees and has even been to services where the local customs (parades of the dead, worship and not just veneration of Mary, as well as many other examples he gives me) seem to override and even take center stage to a point. He says that he and his missionary groups are out sharing the Gospel in areas that most are “Catholic” but the Gospel seems to be foreign. I don’t really have anything to say to it because I don’t have much experience other than being in Mexico a few times and I kind of know where he’s coming from in a sense. I have many Hispanic friends that this is foreign to them and am not by any means trying to throw a blanket statement out there but just want some clarity. I experience the Gospel every week in the Catholic parish I attend as well as other parishes I’ve visited, but I don’t know how things are done elsewhere So I guess what I’m trying to ask is:

1. How do you know if the churches my dad is speaking of are actually in full-communion with Rome (because I figured this might be one of the answers to his experience)?
2. How much freedom is given in the Mass to allow little “T” traditions in them and where is the line drawn?
3. Are the local bishops in each area responsible for making sure that the teachings and practices are orthodox and correct?
4. What words would you give someone like my dad, who on 20+ occasions has experienced the “Catholic” church in a way that “appears” to be off and the Gospel “seems to be lost”?

My dad is a wonderful man and he has been very open and hasn’t discouraged me from joining the RCC. We have had wonderful talks over the last six months and even though I don’t see him converting anytime soon, I have seen him go from anti-Catholic to having an appreciation for the Church but at the same time a little weary of it and it has to do with his experiences as a missionary and his direct contact with churches in Mexico and Latin America with the “Catholic?/catholic?” stamped on their front doors.

I want to end this by saying I am not trying to say the Roman Catholic Churches in Mexico or Latin America are doing anything wrong or are trying to take a stab. I’m just concerned and have questions and any answers would help me and my dad out a lot.

1. If the community has a priest whose bishop is in full-communion with Rome.
2. Native customs are ok insofar that they do not oppose a doctrine of the faith.
3. Yes. However, especially in rural areas, it is difficult.
4. Read up on state-sponsored anti-Catholicism in Mexico. Especially the terror and murder campaign against Catholic priests by dictator Tomas Garrido Canabal.

 

[FAB]

I ask this question out of pure ignorance on the subject and really hope some of you all can help me out. I’m in the process of converting to the RCC and while talking to my father, a very active evangelical missionary to many Spanish speaking countries, he continues to ask me about the “Catholic” churches he is around when he is in these areas. In his experience, he sees and has even been to services where the local customs (parades of the dead, worship and not just veneration of Mary, as well as many other examples he gives me) seem to override and even take center stage to a point. He says that he and his missionary groups are out sharing the Gospel in areas that most are “Catholic” but the Gospel seems to be foreign. I don’t really have anything to say to it because I don’t have much experience other than being in Mexico a few times and I kind of know where he’s coming from in a sense. I have many Hispanic friends that this is foreign to them and am not by any means trying to throw a blanket statement out there but just want some clarity. I experience the Gospel every week in the Catholic parish I attend as well as other parishes I’ve visited, but I don’t know how things are done elsewhere So I guess what I’m trying to ask is:

There are a number of traditions in Mexico that might seem strang to a protestant evangelize. Mexican tradition is to honor the deceased in the “day of the dead” at the time of All Souls Day in November. There are skelatal figures that are often used. Since in Catholic tradition we believe we are part of the communion of saints and offering prayers for our departed is incouraged, even in our funeral liturgy we reflect that our relationships made in life do not end at death, the Mexican tradition is just a different expression of that practice.

There is also an extremely stong devotion to Mary. The teaching on her is the same as the rest of the Church.

As far as not having knowledge of the Gospels. That is not uncommon even in the United States. Although the Church puts a strong (name removed by moderator)hasis on the scriptures, in many poor areas of Mexico, the missionarys are more concerned with getting the people basic needs of food, housing water and eduction.

1. How do you know if the churches my dad is speaking of are actually in full-communion with Rome (because I figured this might be one of the answers to his experience)?

They may be, he’s just seeing local customs in many cases

1. How much freedom is given in the Mass to allow little “T” traditions in them and where is the line drawn?

Since Vatican II the church has worked to allow the customns of the country to work in conjustion with the Church’s teaching. the line would be drawn if the parctice is against the caticism (witchcraft, voodoo)

1. Are the local bishops in each area responsible for making sure that the teachings and practices are orthodox and correct

?

Yes

1. What words would you give someone like my dad, who on 20+ occasions has experienced the “Catholic” church in a way that “appears” to be off and the Gospel “seems to be lost”?

The question is does your father take the word of the Gospel as literual truth. The church teaches the gospel is without error in mannor of tradition. In our homilies we try to teach the gospel on how it relates to conditions todays world.
Your father needs to understand that the Church is not only based on scripture, but on tradition, the 2000 years history of guidance from the Holy Spirit. wWithout that understanding, I could see how he might not understand.

Peace,
FAB

 

[HollyDolly]

:tiphat:I’m sure dad as an evangelical like most believe the Holy Gospels are the literal truth. They can quote chapter and verse, and many understand what the gospels are saying.While the Gospel is preached at mass, I don’t think Catholics really devote a lot of time studying the bible or having classes on it like protestants do. I think now the parishes are starting to have bible study for those interested, but growing up in the 1960s and 70s I don’t recall any at the local parish level, and don’t recall any real emphasis on it when taking CCD classes either.Which is the exact oppisotes with most protestant churches.
This maybe what your are refering to with your dad and the Catholic Church and the gospel.Also, it may seem that people he has come in contact with,especially clergy members may not be say living up to the gospels .Maybe you could give us a few examples.

Some of the customs there are folkways. You can get candy skulls and Day of the dead bread in Mexico, and they poke fun of death. The attitude is death, is part of life, and no
one should be afraid of it.People also bring food to the cemeteries for the deceased,especially among the poor.They had an article on Yahoo News and in the San Antonio Express News of the mexican police wrecking shrines to Santa Muerta, or Good Death.This so called saint, which is a pagan superstition is popular amongst the drug lords and other criminals in Mexico.
As a Catholic, I do find that some of the religious customs of Latin America are off puting.
Not the devotion to Mary , but some of the other stuff I assume your father has experienced there.
I guess my distaste is based on the fact that I come from a whole different culture, my mom hungarian and my dad german, and to me some of this stuff does remind me of paganism.

 

[thunderballs75]

I’m Mexican first of all. In Mexico, Catholicism is 100% “progressive” Catholicism. You will never find a traditional Mass there, let alone an EF Mass. Anything goes.

 

[Silas_Barnabas]

In Mexico, as in many less developed countries, vestiges of superstition and witchcraft often remain. Missionaries are often sent to cut down on heretical practice, but it remains the norm in many places. A good example of this is “La Santisima Muerte,” a skeletal figure that is worshipped in some places in Mexico, and considered to be an aspect of Mary. This practice has been outright condemned by the Church, yet remains. It is important for your dad to understand that these things are not Catholic practice, and he would probably find similar things in evangelical parishes in Africa.

 

[FCEGM]

1. Read up on state-sponsored anti-Catholicism in Mexico. Especially the terror and murder campaign against Catholic priests by dictator Tomas Garrido Canabal.

That’s a most important point, Madaglan!

Raider, these articles (including a papal encyclical) will give you and your father some perspective on the situation in Mexico:

catholicinsight.com/online/features/article_748.shtml

ewtn.com/library/encyc/p11iniqu.htm

hopeitis.com/2008/10/25/patrick-madrid-the-catholic-persecution-in-mexico-dih-2008/

 

[Raider_Red]

I appreciate all of your replies. I know it has to be tougher in certain areas for the church to shape the culture and sometimes culture seems to shape the church even if efforts to avoid it are in place. It’s hard to understand at times why things look different in other areas because we are submersed in our culture and I forget at times that not everyone does things the way I do them. I just wanted more information and to find what might be at the root of some of this and the replies have helped.

 

[Seamus_L]

There is a long history in many rural parts of Mexico, where Indians venerate Our Lady of Guadelupe, but ignore most of the church’s sacraments and devotions.