Catholicism & Non-Catholics

[Requiem]

Greetings. I’ve recently come back to the faith just a few months ago. I’ve love pestering fellow Catholics with theological questions.

One big point of contention I’ve had is whether or not members of other faiths have a relationship with God. The Holy Spirit is only present in those who are baptized. But do you think he nonetheless answer prayers from any noble soul? Would He be present at all in those whose intentions were just and noble? Would a Hindu who prays to some deity perhaps have his prayers answered by an angel, being ignorant in factual knowledge but pure of heart?

Did Gandhi or the Buddha have an intimate relationship with God? They were technically pagans, but the lives they led were certainly more Christ-like than most. What of Aristotle? The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas was more or less based on the works of this ancient Greek philosopher – did this knowledge only become divine after reinterpreted by a Christian?

What about oversoul/Brahman/collective-conscioussness/“we’re all one” type ideas? They all smack of pantheism, “the God within”, and New Age bologna, but I can’t help but feel there’s some merit in these beliefs. We are all made in the image of God and animated by his “breath” as scripture tells us. He is of Spirit just as we are. Is there not a Divine presence in all humans? Isn’t that what distinguishes us from animals?

What of nitty-gritty spiritual matters like projection of consciousness, chakras, chi, and karma formations? I believe these things exist and spiritually awakened people can perceive them, but the Church has no teachings on such matters. Do such matters remain esoteric for a reason?

Apologies if this is the wrong section

 

[Newsy]

The same could be said for protestants and non-practicing Catholics. Do they have a relationship with God? I would say yes, most do. But, only God knows the heart. Since there is only one way to the Father, through Jesus Christ, if the a fore mentioned groups know God or get to Heaven it is because of God’s mercy. Of course, we all are depending on God’s mercy!

I don’t buy into relativism, there is an absolute truth. Not all ideas are equal, but will the Lord show His grace and mercy to individuals who believe “all are one”? I am not familiar with the practices you mentioned, other than karma, but I know the impact Jesus Christ has made on me. Do you think “paying it forward” or “what comes around, goes around” makes a profound impact on a person’s soul?

The only one who has the answer these questions is God, and we will all stand before Him some day. This is why we need to pray for Him to have mercy on others, because we want Him to show mercy on us.

 

[novusCatholic]

The only one who has the answer these questions is God, and we will all stand before Him some day. This is why we need to pray for Him to have mercy on others, because we want Him to show mercy on us.

Great comment.

 

[runningdude]

I do believe that because there is an objective truth, namely that we are all created in the image of the Christian God.

Because this objective truth exists, its possible for man to observe it and interpret it. Adam, the prototype of humanity, conversed directly with God, passing some divine knowledge into humanity’s collective knowledge. Because of our human nature, we have an innate instinct for morality that is directly attributed to our Creator.

Thus, when ancient philosophers were observing the world, and pondering its make up, they could very well have been observing bits and pieces of divine truth. Parts of it have been distorted - in India and else where, the immortal nature of the soul might have been observed, but interpreted this as reincarnation.

Reincarnation denies the dignity of the human body, relegating it to a disposal vessel. Karma likewise recognizes punishment following death, but pigeonholes this concept into the cycle of reincarnation. In Chinese philosophy, chi similarly recognizes that something animates the body, but instead of an immortal soul, reduces it to a purely mechanical “life-force”.

Many, many cultures have felt the presence of God. They may have interpreted His presence through faulty cultural frameworks, leading to wrong conclusions about God, but I have no doubt that most Pagans, while believing in the wrong god, are interacting with the true God. Their poor understanding of His nature, and their own nature, may complicate their prayers. They may pray for objectively impossible outcomes, such as a better life following reincarnation. Some’s interpretation may be so distorted, their relationship with God is totally disfunctional and selfish.

This is why we need to evangelize, build on what truth they have with a proper understanding of God, His sacrifice of His only Son, and the Church He left on Earth to proclaim His message and distribute His graces and sacraments.

 

[grannymh]

Greetings. I’ve recently come back to the faith just a few months ago. I’ve love pestering fellow Catholics with theological questions.

One big point of contention I’ve had is whether or not members of other faiths have a relationship with God. The Holy Spirit is only present in those who are baptized.

Ooops. The Holy Spirit’s presence is never limited.

 

[Abu]

Pope St Clement knew that non-Catholics could be saved from the beginning, for he wrote in about 95 A.D. to the Church in Corinth: “Those who repented for their sins, appeased God in praying and received salvation, even though they were aliens to God.” Catholic Apologetics Today, 1986, Fr William G Most, p 145].

 

[Requiem]

Do you think “paying it forward” or “what comes around, goes around” makes a profound impact on a person’s soul?

Absolutely, you reap what you sow. But what I meant by karma formations is human metaphysical energy, rather than the karma cycle. It exists but the only teachings on it come from traditional Oriental beliefs and New Age nonsense… against which the Church is opposed, particularly the latter.

Ooops. The Holy Spirit’s presence is never limited.

Hm. I spoke with a professor of theology who is also a priest, a Traditional Catholic if there ever was one, and he was pretty clear that only Christians receive the Holy Spirit. But who knows? Newsy is right; God works in mysterious ways and until we see Him face to face, we can only speculate.

runningdude:

Because this objective truth exists, its possible for man to observe it and interpret it. Adam, the prototype of humanity, conversed directly with God, passing some divine knowledge into humanity’s collective knowledge. Because of our human nature, we have an innate instinct for morality that is directly attributed to our Creator.

Thus, when ancient philosophers were observing the world, and pondering its make up, they could very well have been observing bits and pieces of divine truth.

That is an excellent point!

runningdude:

This is why we need to evangelize, build on what truth they have with a proper understanding of God, His sacrifice of His only Son, and the Church He left on Earth to proclaim His message and distribute His graces and sacraments.

Amen to that!

 

[Abu]

Requiem,#7
I spoke with a professor of theology who is also a priest, a Traditional Catholic if there ever was one, and he was pretty clear that only Christians receive the Holy Spirit. But who knows? Newsy is right; God works in mysterious ways and until we see Him face to face, we can only speculate.

Post #6 gives the teaching on salvation for non-Catholics, not speculation.

Those who, through no fault of their own, have never known Christ or his Church can still be saved. But their salvation, too, is the effect of Jesus working through his Church. In a positive sense, this theological principle “means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body” (CCC 846).

The teaching MEANS that WITHOUT the Church there is no salvation – ALL salvation comes through Christ’s Church.

 

[Requiem]

^In which case the holy spirit would come only at the moment of death

 

[ConstantineTG]

^In which case the holy spirit would come only at the moment of death

We believe that the Holy Spirit comes at the moment of Baptism. Confirmation seals the Holy Spirit within us. Unless you’re referring to something else I might have missed.

 

[Requiem]

We believe that the Holy Spirit comes at the moment of Baptism. Confirmation seals the Holy Spirit within us. Unless you’re referring to something else I might have missed.

I was referring to pagans who receive salvation.

 

[ESMDHokie77]

I was referring to pagans who receive salvation.

Baptism by Desire!