Catholicism vs Americanism

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ialsop

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I have began to notice that Catholics seem to hate whoever is in office. I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.

The idea of neither right wing nor left wing sounds great, but it seems to in reality mean hating everybody.

I am sick of feeling bad for saying the Pledge or living in this country, I want to be proud of it. Can Catholics be proud of America for what it is, without always hating the economy(socialism or consumerism) the government(baby killers or racists) and the culture(secularist or protestant)?
 
Well said. I feel the same way as you and I have no clue what the answer is to unite this c country and see some pride from people in this country.
 
ialsop said:
I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.
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Are these the same people? If they are, they’ve got a problem!

Or are you just hearing from a different group of Catholics? Being human, we tend to say nothing if things are going our way, but complain bitterly when they don’t.

Catholics I know personally, as well as many who post here, seem to be supportive of Trump. I’m not, so feel like I’m in the minority. Before the election, I told anyone who asked that I would rather vote for a professional, predictable politician rather than a loose cannon. Seems like most Catholics preferred the loose cannon. 🤷
 
The USA has a very anti-Catholic history. The more I learn about it, the less I’m surprised by my feeling “unsettled.” I even live in one of the most Catholic parts of the US and I still feel that way!
 
ialsop said:
I have began to notice that Catholics seem to hate whoever is in office. I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.

The idea of neither right wing nor left wing sounds great, but it seems to in reality mean hating everybody.

I am sick of feeling bad for saying the Pledge or living in this country, I want to be proud of it. Can Catholics be proud of America for what it is, without always hating the economy(socialism or consumerism) the government(baby killers or racists) and the culture(secularist or protestant)?
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Recognising that your country is not perfect is a good thing. Both Obama and trump are terrible for your country for different reasons. There is nothing to be proud of in the fact that the best candidate the conservatives could put forward in the opinion of those that voted in the primaries was Trump. There is nothing to be proud of in the fact that abortion wasn’t even on the radar for a lot of people who voted for him.

There is a lot of blind patriotism in the USA that other countries don’t have. Is that what you want to have? You should be proud of the good in your country and willing to recognise the bad. That is a very healthy thing.
 
If you grew up with Obama in office then you probably are relatively young.

I can tell you this: The happiest people I know are those who don’t spend time on social media.
 
You can argue from a political stance of either conservative or liberal, and you will always, as a Catholic, be disappointed with some aspects of the current political situation.

Over time, I’ve learned from priests both conservative and liberal that it all comes down to perspective - are you an American who just happens to be Catholic, or are you a Catholic who just happens to be an American?

As a Catholic, you celebrate and support what is right, and work to change what is wrong, and give thanks that you live in a place where this is possible…**
 
The first thing to remember is that we are not, and never were, a democracy, rather an electoral oligarchy. As such, some will always be discontented or disgruntled.

Second, poilitcal values do not per se mirror those of the Church. As the government changes hands, the pendulum slams from left to right and back. The positions of the Church, which is global and not American per se, are much nearer the center.

ICXC NIKA
 
Catholics really don’t hate whoever’s in office. You have only been exposed to 1 president, really, and Mr. Obama has been a very ineffective president, although charismatic when making speeches.
He’s very pro-abortion, which makes it hard to find good things to say about him.
We have had good presidents in the past, and I’m sure we will again. JFK was not bad IMO. Most of them have had good and bad points.

We can be proud of America, despite her faults, because it’s a great experiment in government: government of the people, by the people and for the people. We can be proud of the many people who have died to protect our freedoms. There is nothing wrong with saying the pledge of allegiance with pride in our country.
And that said, we need to stay on our guard to prevent it from being changed from within.

.
 
ialsop said:
I have began to notice that Catholics seem to hate whoever is in office. I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.

The idea of neither right wing nor left wing sounds great, but it seems to in reality mean hating everybody.

I am sick of feeling bad for saying the Pledge or living in this country, I want to be proud of it. Can Catholics be proud of America for what it is, without always hating the economy(socialism or consumerism) the government(baby killers or racists) and the culture(secularist or protestant)?
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Yes- there seems to be a sense of negativity among a lot of Catholic commentators- not only in America, but everywhere.

I am not American- but isn’t it the case that the poor actually voted for Trump? That it was like a tidal wave of oppressed minorities (working class, disenfranchised, rural folk), who supported him? Didn’t he promise to respect the Catholic position?

The die has been cast- the best thing to do (what one’s views) is surely to make the best of the situation.
 
Qoeleth said:
Yes- there seems to be a sense of negativity among a lot of Catholic commentators- not only in America, but everywhere.

I am not American- but isn’t it the case that the poor actually voted for Trump? That it was like a tidal wave of oppressed minorities (working class, disenfranchised, rural folk), who supported him? Didn’t he promise to respect the Catholic position?

The die has been cast- the best thing to do (what one’s views) is surely to make the best of the situation.
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Concur on your last part.

However, in the USA, “the poor” != “oppressed minority.”

Not all minority Americans are poor; not all American poor are members of a defined minority.

In election season, that does make a difference.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
The first thing to remember is that we are not, and never were, a democracy, rather an electoral oligarchy. As such, some will always be discontented or disgruntled.
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I don’t think the difference you point out is responsible for the discontent. Even if we did have a pure democracy where every person has the same right to one vote for every issue, that would not eliminate discontent. There will still be people who strongly disagree with the decision of the majority. The only way to reduce discontent is to reduce the diversity of thought. The only way to totally eliminate discontent is to have the population of the nation less than 2.
 
GEddie said:
Concur on your last part.

However, in the USA, “the poor” != “oppressed minority.”

Not all minority Americans are poor; not all American poor are members of a defined minority.

In election season, that does make a difference.

ICXC NIKA
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That true- there are a lot of white males who are left struggling due to difficult employment and economic conditions.

One of the problems in the discussion of social justice is that people who don’t belong to a defined ‘oppressed minority’ often get overlooked, and have no real voice. Maybe this is what came through in the election.
 
Neither party is very conformed to Catholic teaching. I made a promise to myself that I would oppose the evil and support the good of whichever candidate won. I simply found myself focusing on a different set of evils than I expected to: speaking out for Muslims and Hispanics instead of for religious liberty and the unborn.
 
ialsop said:
I have began to notice that Catholics seem to hate whoever is in office. I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.

The idea of neither right wing nor left wing sounds great, but it seems to in reality mean hating everybody.

I am sick of feeling bad for saying the Pledge or living in this country, I want to be proud of it. Can Catholics be proud of America for what it is, without always hating the economy(socialism or consumerism) the government(baby killers or racists) and the culture(secularist or protestant)?
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Go ahead and be proud of your country.

Various Catholics are deeply involved in politics in America. In the current Obama administration, Vice-President Biden is Catholic and Nancy Pelosi is Catholic. In the Trump camp, Kelly Ann Conway and Steve Bannon are Catholic. Speaker of the House Paul Ryan is also Catholic and Jeb Bush is Catholic. Five of the current eight Supreme Court justices are Catholic. Many Catholic Americans are involved in trying to help our country become a better place, yet they frequently don’t agree with one another on what exactly would make it a better place.

Don’t be surprised to learn that people disagree as to what is best.
 
ialsop said:
I have began to notice that Catholics seem to hate whoever is in office. I grew up with Obama in office, and many Catholics resisted him on abortion and gay marriage. Now, I thought, that Trump is in and appointing many conservative people, we Catholics could be proud of our nation. Yet, most Catholics I know are still resisting their nation, because of immigrants and the poor and sexism ect.

The idea of neither right wing nor left wing sounds great, but it seems to in reality mean hating everybody.

I am sick of feeling bad for saying the Pledge or living in this country, I want to be proud of it. Can Catholics be proud of America for what it is, without always hating the economy(socialism or consumerism) the government(baby killers or racists) and the culture(secularist or protestant)?
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Your wish is possible if Catholics all thought and acted alike. Contrary to popular belief they do not.
What may please some may anger others.
 
Please remember that discussions of particular political parties or figures are not allowed in the Social Justice forum. Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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