Catholicism's fragile powerbase?

[Thepeug]

Many Catholics rely on Church leaders to guide them in nearly every aspect of their lives. The authority to give such guidance is based upon the idea of Apostolic succession: Jesus granted teaching authority to the Apostles, who passed it on to bishops, who pass it on today to new generations of bishops. After reading about the decline in new Catholic priests and those assuming religious vocations, I have a bit of an odd question to ask. What would happen if, like in Dan Brown’s *Angels and Demons, *the Pope and all of the cardinals were killed in an explosion? What if all the bishops around the world were also among those killed? Would the Catholic church be able to survive? Who would appoint new priests? Who would guide the Church in matters of faith and morals? I know this is a bit of a morbid question, but it brings to mind the degree to which the Church is dependent upon humans and history. This quote from a Catholic member of these forums also spurred the question:

“Without leaders our Church will not be able to survive as we know it. It is our clergy and religious that educate us and lead us in our Faith and Morals. With clergy they will steer us away from evil. Without clergy we steer ourselves towards evils and sins of the flesh.”

Any thoughts?

God bless,

Chris

 

[Britta]

Thepeug:

What would happen if, like in Dan Brown’s *Angels and Demons, *the Pope and all of the cardinals were killed in an explosion? What if all the bishops around the world were also among those killed? Would the Catholic church be able to survive? Who would appoint new priests? Who would guide the Church in matters of faith and morals? I know this is a bit of a morbid question, but it brings to mind the degree to which the Church is dependent upon humans and history. This quote from a Catholic member of these forums also spurred the question:

“Without leaders our Church will not be able to survive as we know it. It is our clergy and religious that educate us and lead us in our Faith and Morals. With clergy they will steer us away from evil. Without clergy we steer ourselves towards evils and sins of the flesh.”

Any thoughts?

God bless,

Chris

First of all, the idea that the Pope and all Bishops being killed is far fetched. But in the unlikely event that it did happen, the bottom line is that Jesus would take care of it. We should not so much be dependent on humans and history but on Him. What we are is dependent on His promise not to leave us orphans and He always keeps His promises. Right now, we have a succession of priests, bishops, etc. that we can look to for guidance. He will provide us with that guidance should something change that.

 

[Poisson]

Sure it would survive because Jesus said that death shall not prevail against his church. Besides what are the odds that every bishop in the world would be killed at the same time?

 

[Archbishop_10-K]

Not that long ago, Napoleon conquered Rome and arrested the Pope, who died in prison. (!!!) Was that the end of the Church? I don’t think so. In fact, very few Catholics today even know that happened. If all the cardinals in the world died, that would not be the end, since being a cardinal isn’t even technically being an ordained clergyman and there are many non-cardinal archbishops. I don’t think anybody from the early Church would be able to tell you what a cardinal is, 'cause they never had them.

 

[Scott_Shelton]

What would happen if, like in Dan Brown’s *Angels and Demons, *the Pope and all of the cardinals were killed in an explosion? What if all the bishops around the world were also among those killed?

Dan Brown sure likes grinding that axe I hope he doesn’t hurt himself with it.

Since only a Bishop can ordain a Priest there would be no new Catholic Priests. So with the Death of the last Priest loyal to Rome would end the Catholic Church.

Since the Orthodox Christians also have Valid Holy Orders there would still be valid Priests and Bishops and the Real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I assume most Catholics would gravitate towards the Orthodox Churches.

Or since there have been many methods of choosing the Pope and since any baptized male is eligible to be Pope (though its been over 600 years since the last non Cardinal was elected Pope ) the remaining Catholics could elect a Pope and ask the Orthodox Bishops to ordain him Priest than Bishop. (might be the only thing to bring the east and west back together)

Although it very hard to imagine every Bishop across this whole earth being killed.

As far a where we would get our direction for spiritual and moral guidance, there is a vast body of teaching that could sustain the faithful for a time. At least until something new came up like two headed space aliens with their own gospel of Christ.

After all if we relied on scripture alone we might not of had clear direction on things like embryonic stem cell research or cloning, in a every changing world it is a comfort to have a Church that can guide us thru the moral land mines laid down in the course of history.

Scott

 

[Thepeug]

Thank you all for the responses to an admittedly off-the-wall question! Scott, I find your idea of a crisis-fueled unification of East and West interesting, but I have a question about the following statement:
Scott Shelton:
So with the Death of the last Priest loyal to Rome would end the Catholic Church.
Scott
Even without priests, the Catholic faithful would still be around. Are they not part of the Church? Granted, things might be a bit chaotic without organized leadership. The demise of the leadership, however, doesn’t spell the end of the Church; only the loss of one of its crucial components. Would you agree?

God bless,

Chris

 

[space_ghost]

Thepeug:

Many Catholics rely on Church leaders to guide them in nearly every aspect of their lives. The authority to give such guidance is based upon the idea of Apostolic succession: Jesus granted teaching authority to the Apostles, who passed it on to bishops, who pass it on today to new generations of bishops. After reading about the decline in new Catholic priests and those assuming religious vocations, I have a bit of an odd question to ask. What would happen if, like in Dan Brown’s *Angels and Demons, *the Pope and all of the cardinals were killed in an explosion? What if all the bishops around the world were also among those killed? Would the Catholic church be able to survive? Who would appoint new priests? Who would guide the Church in matters of faith and morals? I know this is a bit of a morbid question, but it brings to mind the degree to which the Church is dependent upon humans and history. This quote from a Catholic member of these forums also spurred the question:

“Without leaders our Church will not be able to survive as we know it. It is our clergy and religious that educate us and lead us in our Faith and Morals. With clergy they will steer us away from evil. Without clergy we steer ourselves towards evils and sins of the flesh.”

Any thoughts?

God bless,

Chris

We are protected by the Holy Ghost… remember, the gates of hell will not prevail… be not afraid…

 

[Scott_Shelton]

Hi Chris

(thanks for signing with a name it makes communication easier)

Even without priests, the Catholic faithful would still be around. Are they not part of the Church?

Do two arms and two legs make a human if there is no torso and head?

Since I am neither a theologian nor a Cannon Lawyer this is just my take on it and not Church teaching. My thought is that without priest we would go from a seven-sacrament church to a two-sacrament church. We would have baptism an marriage but no Eucharist or Reconciliation no confirmation or Holy orders or Anointing of the Sick. We would also no longer be guided by valid apostolic authority. Which kind of invalidates our creed or one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.

I will give you a link to a paper by **BISHOP DONALD W. WUERL on what it means to be Catholic **I think you might see what I mean

One of the reasons for the profound allegiance and deep love that a Catholic has for the Church is the recognition that the ecclesial community is more than just a gathering of like-minded people. It is a divine and human reality instituted by Christ to lead us to God. The Church is the instrument that makes available to us the saving grace won for us by Christ as he hung on the cross, died and then gloriously rose from the dead as our savior.

The sacraments are one of the most visible aspects of the Catholic Church. At every stage of our lives the Church offers us an encounter with Christ in a way that signifies and, at the same time, realizes the personal contact with the Lord. As the Church herself matured, she has come to reserve the word “sacrament” for the seven graced actions instituted by Christ to accomplish his new life-giving activity. Yet all are expressions of what the Second Vatican Council calls “the sacrament” — - the Church.

What it means to be Catholic link

Peace

Scott

 

[Scott_Shelton]

Space Ghost

We are protected by the Holy Ghost… remember, the gates of hell will not prevail… be not afraid

Agreed but this is sort of a speculative thread and sometimes pondering what ifs makes for a good learning experience. Even if the what ifs are unlikely or especially so. I learned a few things just researching to answer Chris’s question. :tiphat:

Peace

Scott

 

[Thepeug]

Poisson:

Sure it would survive because Jesus said that death shall not prevail against his church.

Poisson,

Your statement reminds me of something. Many Christians commonly interpet Matthew 16:18 to mean that the Church will not be overcome by the powers of hell. The Church is on the defensive, protecting the faithful from the incessant attacks of Satan. When I read this verse, however, I see the Church as the one doing the attacking. Jesus said, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it” (NSRV). Gates are stationary objects. They cannot move, so they cannot attack the Church. Rather, Christ is assuring Peter that even the gates of hell will not be able to withstand the triumphant march of Christianity. Eventually, even the stronghold of evil will be destroyed as Christ’s followers (the church) go forth to spread the news of His love, mercy, and majesty. I know this is a bit off-topic, but I’ve been meaning to mention it, and I figured this was a good opportunity. Any thoughts?

In Christ,

Chris