Catholics and druid practices?

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Yesterday I was talking with some family members who are evangelical and we got talking about our differences. I need help in answering some of his questions:
  1. I pointed out that Catholocism is the one true church started by Jesus Christ himself. He said, that it was started by Christ, but that it got tainted with druid practices. He said our mass is very similar to the druids. I have no idea who the druids are what their practices were, can anyone help explain and provide me with ways to support the Catholic church?
  2. He said that transubstantiation is wrong. That Jesus cannot be re-sacrificed. That when He was on the cross and said “It is finished.”, it truly was finished, and that if we believe in transubstantiation, we are going against scripture. He went so far as to call it cannabalism! I brought up in scripture where Jesus is telling His followers that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, that many of them turned away from Him and “followed him no more.” But this wasn’t good enough, because he said that later on in the same passage, the bible says that the followers didn’t even ask if he meant it literally or symbolically…
  3. He said our focus on the tabernacle is wrong, because Jesus is alive in all of us. Not hidden away someplace. So, can we scripturally support this?
I know this is alot to cover in one thread, but any help you can give me would be great. Thank you!
 
  1. The Mass is totally scriptural - see the Gospels, Paul’s letters, and Revelations. I suppose one could look at any religion and see a “parallel” to another religion and then make the “connection” where none exists. Example: Hindus have incense, therefore Catholicism has been diluted by Hinduism. Patently false, but no different than the connection your relatives are making.
Parts 2) and 3) have been adequately answered elsewhere.
 
I’ll reply to the first point. The fact is the Mass is very similar to the worship that was done by the Apostles not 10 years after the death of Jesus, in Jerusalem, and therefore impossible to be “corrupted by druidic influence” Here is a quote from the didache, which is the first doctrinal statement of the Apostles, written less than 40 years after the death and ascension of Christ.

14:1 And on the Lord’s own day gather yourselves together and break bread and give thanks, first confessing your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure.

Single sentence, powerful message.
  1. Gather on the Lord’s Day (Sunday),
  2. Break bread,
  3. give thanks,
  4. Confess your sins so as not to profane the Body and Blood of Christ.
Exactly what about Catholic worship can trace its establishment to a propogation of druidic practice?
 
SavedByHim,

I would suggest going to Catholic.com and going through some of the materials there. One article does deal with the charge that Catholicism is tainted by paganism, and can be found here:

catholic.com/library/Is_Catholicism_Pagan.asp

There’s also some materials on the Sacraments that would be helpful in regards to your second question.

But back to this druid thing: there is little, if any, reliable information regarding the exact nature of druidic practices. Modern “druids” are really making up their “religion” from conjecture and wishful thinking. I would ask for details of just what it is that Catholics do that stem from the druids, details that can be backed up by repected historians, not loony made-up historical “facts” put out by anti-Catholics.
 
The Barrister:
Parts 2) and 3) have been adequately answered elsewhere.
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You’re right. I apologize for bringing up questions that I’m sure are typical “anti-Catholic” criticisms. I just needed to get it out all in one place…

Have they been discussed in this forum? I did a search for “tabernacle” and came up with nothing…

I’ll keep looking! Thanks for your help.
 
In answer to question 2:

I would first ask them (and yourself?) to explain transubstantiation. Jesus is NOT RE-sacrificed. But is more than a Memorial Service. It is a representation of the same Sacrifice. It is the same sacrifice made present. (I personally love Einstein. He was a great man of God, and believed time did not go on a line, but is all munched together so to speak. It perfectly fits the Catholic belief of the SAME sacrifice made present.)

question 3:
Yes Jesus is alive in all of us, but He is also present in the Tabernacle. Ask them, since Jesus is alive in them, if they would not bow to Jesus when brought into His Real presence? Having Jesus in us does not make us Christ nor equal to Him.

As to question 1, do your relatives celebrate Christmas? If so they are celebrating a day that originally was not a Christian celebration. It was (okay this may be somewhat wrong, but the original thought is true) a day to celebrate the Sun. A winter solstice. Christians came along and said, we have the real Son, the Son of God. Jesus was not born in December. The shepards are with the flocks during lambing season in the spring. Do you think Christians forgot that? Just because something used to be something else, does not mean Christians can not change the meaning and make it something of God. Here’s another one, does their church throw a “Harvest Party” on Halloween to offer a Godly alternative?

I hope this helped.
Maria
 
Oh and another thing he brought up - it says somewhere in scripture that repetitious prayer is wrong, even a sin.

Well, in the Catholic mass, we do have alot of repetative prayers from week to week…

What should my response be?

Thanks to all for replies thus far. I have so much studying to do! 🙂
 
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SavedByHim:
. .
  1. it got tainted with druid practices. He said our mass is very similar to the druids.
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I’d need some more specific evidence of this. Can he cite his sources so we can get on the same page?
  1. He said that transubstantiation is wrong. That Jesus cannot be re-sacrificed. . .Transubstantiation does not mean resacrificing. It means that the bread and wine become the Body of Christ and His Saving Blood
he said that later on in the same passage, the bible says that the followers didn’t even ask if he meant it literally or symbolically…
Click to expand...
The bible never says, “They did not ask if he meant it literally or symbolically”. Don’t just take his word for it. First, pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then get your bible out and discuss the exact scripture. In addition, almost all of his followers left Jesus at that point; He didn’t call them back and say, “wait, I didn’t mean it literally”, only the few who believed what Jesus said stayed with Him.
  1. He said our focus on the tabernacle is wrong
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What focus on the tabernacle? This is a very broad statement. He will have to explain exactly what erroneous ideas he has about it.
 
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RBushlow:
What focus on the tabernacle? This is a very broad statement. He will have to explain exactly what erroneous ideas he has about it.
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He gave the example of genuflecting or bowing our heads in the direction of the tabernacle before we enter the pew or approach the altar.
 
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SavedByHim:
Oh and another thing he brought up - it says somewhere in scripture that repetitious prayer is wrong, even a sin.

Well, in the Catholic mass, we do have alot of repetative prayers from week to week…

What should my response be?

Thanks to all for replies thus far. I have so much studying to do! 🙂
Click to expand...
It isn’t repetitious prayer that is forbidden, its “murmuring”. Pagans had the practice of going through lists of names of their gods, believing that if you recited the names of the gods properly and in proper order, you could have power over them. You can understand why Paul admonished this practice, any thought that you could recite a list of names to have power over God was blasphemy! Here is an example that, while not patently scriptural, paints a picture of the acceptability of repetative, canned prayers.

Jesus’ step-father, Jospeh, is only mentioned at the beginning of the Gospels. It is assumed that he died sometime soon after the Egyptian exile, probably when Jesus was around 20. After the temple incident when Jesus was 12, you never heard Joseph mentioned again, although there are plenty of references to His mother. So, the Jews had very specific prayers that they would be prayed at a funeral service, including the “mourner’s caddish”. It would be reasonable to assume that Jesus would have been at Joseph’s “funeral” and would have participated, including the repetition of these prayers. So, if it is okay to assume that Jesus, God Incarnate, would allow the use of these prayers honoring the dead and asking for God’s mercy on his soul, then repetitious prayers are not exclusively forbidden.
 
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RBushlow:
Don’t just take his word for it. First, pray for the guidance of the Holy Spirit, then get your bible out and discuss the exact scripture.
Click to expand...
Finding the actual scriptural passage is on my list of “to do’s” regarding his accusations, and I am constantly praying for spiritual guidance. Thank you for the words of support!
 
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SavedByHim:
Oh and another thing he brought up - it says somewhere in scripture that repetitious prayer is wrong, even a sin.

Well, in the Catholic mass, we do have alot of repetative prayers from week to week…

What should my response be?

Thanks to all for replies thus far. I have so much studying to do! 🙂
Click to expand...
I believe it says “vain” repetition of prayer which would mean insincere prayer. Read Matthew 6:7. Jesus talks about the pagans who think that they will win a hearing by the sheer multiplication of words. (You have to be careful of others quoting scripture. They sometimes leave an important word out which makes a huge difference in what they’re saying).

That’s not what we do. The Rosary is a set of meditations. To not meditate on the mysteries would be to lose the essence of the prayer.

I know. You were referring to the prayers in the mass. So what do you mean by repetitive? That we say them every week? So do the others when they pray the Lord’s Prayer and sing the Glory Be.
Tell your evangelical family members that we agree about repetitious prayer. The mass is all scriptural. We believe in focusing on the meanings of the prayers and not sheer repetition. We have that in common with them. (Having something in common with them just may leave them speechless--for a minute or two).
 
Show me someone who attacks Catholicism based on “urban legend” and falsehood, and I’ll show you someone who has been led astray by a minister who thinks this is the way to more people in the pews and more dollars in the collection plate (if I could just convert a million Catholics…).

I often surprised by the reactions to such charges. Be confident that the Catholic Faith is the Faith handed down from the Apostles - that it is fully “Scriptural” and that it is the fullness of Faith practice to which we ar called by God. Seek answers to your questions as suggested (by going to the site that hosts this thread), and be prepared to acccurately discuss your Faith, especially if you live in the “Bible Belt” like I do, or if you find yourself in the company of those who question your Faith and want to know some answers.

It is just good evangelization to not have to respond to questions like a deer caught in headlights.
 
Show me someone who attacks Catholicism based on “urban legend” and falsehood, and I’ll show you someone who has been led astray by a minister who thinks this is the way to more people in the pews and more dollars in the collection plate (if I could just convert a million Catholics…).

I’m often surprised by the reactions to such charges. Be confident that the Catholic Faith is the Faith handed down from the Apostles - that it is fully “Scriptural” and that it is the fullness of Faith practice to which we are called by God. Seek answers to your questions as suggested (by going to the site that hosts this thread), and be prepared to acccurately discuss your Faith, especially if you live in the “Bible Belt” like I do, or if you find yourself in the company of those who question your Faith and want to know some answers.

It is just good evangelization to not have to respond to questions like a deer caught in headlights.
 
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SavedByHim:
Yesterday I was talking with some family members who are evangelical and we got talking about our differences. I need help in answering some of his questions:
  1. I pointed out that Catholocism is the one true church started by Jesus Christ himself. He said, that it was started by Christ, but that it got tainted with druid practices. He said our mass is very similar to the druids. I have no idea who the druids are what their practices were, can anyone help explain and provide me with ways to support the Catholic church?
  2. He said that transubstantiation is wrong. That Jesus cannot be re-sacrificed. That when He was on the cross and said “It is finished.”, it truly was finished, and that if we believe in transubstantiation, we are going against scripture. He went so far as to call it cannabalism! I brought up in scripture where Jesus is telling His followers that they must eat His flesh and drink His blood, that many of them turned away from Him and “followed him no more.” But this wasn’t good enough, because he said that later on in the same passage, the bible says that the followers didn’t even ask if he meant it literally or symbolically…
  3. He said our focus on the tabernacle is wrong, because Jesus is alive in all of us. Not hidden away someplace. So, can we scripturally support this?
I know this is alot to cover in one thread, but any help you can give me would be great. Thank you!
Click to expand...
Number 1, the statment that Catholicism is based on Druidic practices is laughable. No one has any idea exactly what the Druidic pracitices were. The only contempoary historical info we have on the Druids comes from their enemies and doesnt say anything about their religious rituals except for the worship of trees and the human burnt offerings. Both of which could very well be false. Most scholars today dont even think the “Druids” were a religion but simply the Educated Upper Class among the Celts, who had a strict Caste System.

Number 2 Jesus is not re-sacrificed in the Mass. We dont believe it and HE certainly doesnt believe it so dont let him argue it. It is a Strawman argument. He is beating up on a belief we dont hold.

The Real Presence of Christ in the Euchaist is another issue and the burden is on your opponent to prove that it isnt so. You dont need to refute each and every one of his arguments. The burden of proof is not on you.

Number 3 The physical Tabernacle in our Churches follows from the Real Presence. Simple logic. IF the Real Presence is true, THEN the our use of a Tabernacle is right.

He IS right that Jesus dwells in US but the burden is on him AGAIN to show he ONLY dwells in us and that the Lord is NOT present in the Tabernacle.
 
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SavedByHim:
He gave the example of genuflecting or bowing our heads in the direction of the tabernacle before we enter the pew or approach the altar.
Click to expand...
Christ is in the tabernacle. Body, blood, soul and divinity. If he believed it, too, then he would do the same.

objection #3 is connected to #2. Once you prove #2 then #3 will follow.

His statement that the followers didn’t even ask if he meant it literally or symbolically doesn’t mean anything. Why should they ask if the meaning was clear? (It was probably grossing them out).

In John 6:60, the disciples say, " This sort of talk is hard to endure! How can anyone take it seriously?"

He then asks in verse 61,“Does it shake your faith?”

And in verse 66 it says, “From this time on, many of his disciples broke away and would not remain in his company any longer.”

(New American Bible-Catholic Edition)

It seems clear to me that the disciples understood what Jesus was saying. Why would they react thus if he only meant it symbolically? Your family member has a lot of explaining to do.
 
Vain and repetitious prayer.

Here is the Bible verse that they are referring to. Although it has already been explained what Jesus meant by it.

Mt 6:7 - do not babble lide pagans with their many words
In Kgs 18:25-29 it gives and example of vain repetion calling on Baal for hours.
However, here we have instances in Scripture when Jesus Himself repeated prayers as well as angels in heaven.

**Mt 26:44 So He left them, went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words. **
If Jesus can repeat the same prayer why can’t we?

Jesus gave us the Our Father, are we not supposed to repeat it?

Rev 4:8 - …And they do not rest day or night, saying:
“Holy, holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!”

Jewish people have set and memorized prayers. There is a difference between a memorized prayer that is repeated and "vain and repititous prayers.
 
A friend of mine reminded me of that famous number from Revelations: #666. If you check
John 6 Verse 66 you will find:

“From that time on, many of his disciples broke away and would not remain in his company any longer.”

(New American Bible-Catholic Edition)

This was in response to the eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood (Eucharist).

Eerie, isn’t it?
 
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