Catholics may claim the Church has taught "Truth" for 2000+ years. The downside of course is no flexibility

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It is very important to distinguish between “evil” and “wrong”. It is always evil to kill or steal but in some circumstances it is not wrong because it is the lesser evil - as in the case of self-defence - or the defence of others - against an unjustified attack.
 
The church does not espouse this theory. The church does, however, teach the principle of double effect, which is similar, although critically different in that one may not engage in objectively grave matter to accomplish a good.
In that case killing in self-defence is never justified even if it is the only means of protecting oneself…

The principle of double effect presupposes the principle of choosing the lesser evil. How else?
 
Hela Weiss, now an artist in Prague, escaped death at Auschwitz by lying to Josef Mengele about her age and saying she was fit to work” (Source: The Guardian)

As outlined in the article above, Helga Weiss, a Jew living under the Nazi regime, narrowly missed being sent to the gas chambers because of a simple lie. She was one of the 150 out of 1,500 children to have avoided imminent extermination. Yet, the Catholic position would be to declare this action as sinful and recommend that she goes to Confession (assuming she was Catholic) as soon as possible. Had she died (and indeed, the article says she narrowly missed death a second time), Helga would have probably had to do some time in Purgatory. This is Catholic theology.

Whilst Catholics claim the Church has taught “Truth” for 2000+ years, what they often forget to mention is that this means no flexibility. This means in situations such as the one Helga faced, the optimal or theologically correct choice would have been to say the truth and be sent to the gas chambers. Of course, virtually everyone would lie if it meant that their life was spared. But orthodox Catholicism’s ethical system suggests otherwise.

What we aren’t dealing with is a case of rigidness “handed down from Heaven”. This isn’t a case of God and morality, which Catholics suggest must be necessarily absolute. What we are dealing with is a battle between the three major ethical systems, namely, Virtue Ethics, Deontological Ethics and Utilitarianism. The Church has historically preferred Virtue Ethics and Deontological ethics, both predicated on the thoughts of Aristotle and Immanuel Kant respectively.

We see it on these forums all the time. There is an “anomalous” case regarding a Catholic doctrine, whether it be it concerning birth control or working for an “immoral” business in time of mass unemployment. The orthodox Catholic position ignores the welfare of the agents in cases such as these and instead places precedence on laws and rules. We can clearly see Kant’s influence in this, as he held that morality must be everywhere and anywhere universal.

Helga Weiss lives today as an eminent artist. She lives today because of a simple lie she told. A better ethical system would be to take the “best of all worlds”, taking into consideration virtue ethics, deontological ethics and utilitarianism. This would extend the scope of the multitude of “exceptional cases” certain Catholics across the world face. It would be a more robust ethical system that could easily adjust to an ever-changing society.

What are your thoughts?
A legalistic approach to morality is completely wrong, and completely un-Christian. I know a lot have fallen into this hole, but that is not what the Church teaches. I know what you’re saying, people see a list of dos and don’ts and then make it absolute laws. But the faith was never intended to be like that. The rules are actually guidelines for usual, normative situations. But in extreme cases, of course the goodness of God is what prevails.
 
And how to judge that she is better now than if she had died and gone to heavens!!!
She is suffering now on this earth like all of us, but if she had told the truth and died, she probably be in Paradise enjoying now…
That line of thought may be helpful for trying to make the best of a past event, but the stories in which death was preferred to possibly being suffering that I’ve seen don’t have pretty endings.

When I read it the first thing that comes to mind were some stories of parents that killed their children because they were fearful their children might be tempted away from their god (not necessarily Yahweh). In one case a lady thought herself to be the anti-christ and killed herself and her son. She was sure she was going to hell, but thought it was worth it to ensure her son didn’t end up in the same place.
 
That line of thought may be helpful for trying to make the best of a past event, but the stories in which death was preferred to possibly being suffering that I’ve seen don’t have pretty endings.

When I read it the first thing that comes to mind were some stories of parents that killed their children because they were fearful their children might be tempted away from their god (not necessarily Yahweh). In one case a lady thought herself to be the anti-christ and killed herself and her son. She was sure she was going to hell, but thought it was worth it to ensure her son didn’t end up in the same place.
…we can look at the gas rooms and the ovens and think; is this killing normal behaviour in any circumstances?
Never doubt or underestimate the power of the devil, these things tend to prove his existence and his malice.
 
…we can look at the gas rooms and the ovens and think; is this killing normal behaviour in any circumstances?
I don’t quite understand what you are getting at or how that is related to pondering if those that were killed were better off than if they had not been killed. Can you explain further?
 
I don’t quite understand what you are getting at or how that is related to pondering if those that were killed were better off than if they had not been killed. Can you explain further?
Your second paragraph. Implies the woman’s religious beliefs compelled her. A good God gave life and wishes people to have ‘life more abundantly’, perhaps you should have said the devil pressed her to destroy herself or that she was insane, but tying her actions in with the God of Abraham and Issac cannot be right. He wishes good to people.

If you are wondering about the point you are discussing with someone else about whether it is better for the person to be dead; assuming they went to heaven, they would be infinitely better off. There are tales of a Saint who converted two pagan girls, they wished to go to heaven very much, so the Saint said as they wished and the girls died on the spot and were buried. But the choice of our time of death is not ours unless in the only circumstance of saving a life.
 
Hela Weiss, now an artist in Prague, escaped death at Auschwitz by lying to Josef Mengele about her age and saying she was fit to work” (Source: The Guardian)
What are your thoughts?
It is in the Catholic morality that we have the flexibility to know some actions that may under some circumstances be sinful are not sinful in others.
And we also have the flexibility of understanding the culpability involved in a given sin.

Is it a sin? I do not know. I believe so.
But I also know that the culpability of this particular sin is cut pretty far given the alternative.
 
Your second paragraph. Implies the woman’s religious beliefs compelled her.
Well, I do think that her religious beliefs were part of her motivation. That’s not to imply that religious beliefs in general lead to that. Similarly I’m sure I could find an example of a non-religious person that ended a life because they viewed it as the better of two options (what was the name of that guy from the music group Nirvana? Kurt Cobain or something like that? He killed himself with the message “It’s better to die out than fade away”). That may have been a better example to avoid the unintentional implications.
A good God gave life and wishes people to have ‘life more abundantly’, perhaps you should have said the devil pressed her to destroy herself or that she was insane, but tying her actions in with the God of Abraham and Issac cannot be right. He wishes good to people.
On that note I will highlight that there can be difference between what is believed and what is actual. I don’t hold the believe of the existence of Yahweh myself (which those that believe of his existence can take as an example of my previous statement 🙂 ). But I’m not trying to imply that her beliefs of Yahweh are reflective of Yahweh. What I do wish to do is discourage the general application of the better-off-dead thought when talking about some one that is not yet dead. I discourage it, but I don’t consider it off limits. There are some extreme circumstances where I would see it as justifiable. Ex: the people that jumped from the WTC buildings on 9/11 probably figured they were better off jumping to their deaths than burning up in the fire.
If you are wondering about the point you are discussing with someone else about whether it is better for the person to be dead; assuming they went to heaven, they would be infinitely better off.
If we had knowledge that they did go to heaven I’m sure they are feeling quite well. In the absence of such knowledge the general behaviour I encourage is avoiding death.
There are tales of a Saint who converted two pagan girls, they wished to go to heaven very much, so the Saint said as they wished and the girls died on the spot and were buried.
Sounds like all parties were in agreement here (including Yahweh). With a small bit of adaptation that story could be presented as almost poetic.

Also makes me think of the ending to “The Notebook” (love story) where both characters died (naturally) but it was still a happy “ending.” By contrast Romeo and Juliet were victims of the better-off-dead thought.
But the choice of our time of death is not ours unless in the only circumstance of saving a life.
Indeed (at least typically. I’m assuming we are only considering people that are not suicidal).
…btw what happened your brain?]
I had to laugh when I read this. Some one that doesn’t know my previous profile image was a brain may interpret this sentence differently. 🙂

To heck if I know. It disappeared without notice. It still shows up on my profile, just not in my messages. I guess I need to choose a new image. Thinking about a picture of a very specific toy monkey. Either that or my cat.
 
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