Catholics returning from Islam

[thirddec]

The muslims love to parade catholic converts to Islam ; do we welcome Catholics back and advertise the door home for many who have lost their way. Do we explore their experiences to help prevent more people into the false doctrine of Islam and use their experiences to help others return and also in or work at converting muslims to the teaching and church of their Messiah.

Love and Respect

 

[Bohm_Bawerk]

The muslims love to parade catholic converts to Islam ; do we welcome Catholics back and advertise the door home for many who have lost their way. Do we explore their experiences to help prevent more people into the false doctrine of Islam and use their experiences to help others return and also in or work at converting muslims to the teaching and church of their Messiah.

Love and Respect

I’m not Muslim, but I’m going to guess that the reason why some people convert to Islam is because the religion shows outwardly piousness. In a day of age where religion is not taken seriously, especially in regards with Christianity, there are some people who miss the “order” that they need in their lives and so resort to Islam, which is epitomized at best with the mental image of millions bowing down to worship the “One, True, Living God”. They see this and think, “this is what I need…a closer relationship to God”. In short, the conversion from Catholicism to Islam is usually the result of poor catechesis and little general knowledge of those things in Catholicism which can not be aptly described by it’s theology (such as Marian apparitions and miracles of the saints).

My only advice to people converting to Islam because of this and/or similar reasons is that outwardly piousness does not mean anything. Jesus spoke about the hypocrisy of outwardly piousness; indeed, of all the people He criticized most, it was the Pharisees. Potential converts can look at several things that makes Catholicism “true”. For instance, it’s 2000+ year stance on Truth (Islam does not have this per se, but they do have “schools of thought” which differ substantially on moral issues). Also, how would a potential convert explain what happened at Fatima? Please don’t say it was a “mass hallucination” because that is simply lying to yourself; I am a Catholic who is now bordering on Atheism, and I know when one lies to themselves…

You’ll be surprised to know that many potential converts do not know about any of this. I’m sure there are groups in the local area available that they can join to ensure they are better gripped with Catholicism.

Personally, I can’t imagine myself converting to Islam, and if I did, it would be more of a “rebellion” to God more than anything. Either Catholicism is true, or God simply doesn’t exist in my book, since I believe that Catholicism provides the best evidence and explanation for God’s existence (St. Thomas Aquinas was a Catholic…). Of course, this isn’t the case for everyone hence why we have some converting to Islam. If even they have acknowledged the majority of information surrounding Catholicism and still wish to pursue Islam, then I can simply say I wish them all the best .

Thank you,
**Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
**

 

[Jerok]

Personally, I can’t imagine myself converting to Islam, and if I did, it would be more of a “rebellion” to God more than anything.** Either Catholicism is true, or God simply doesn’t exist in my book, **since I believe that Catholicism provides the best evidence and explanation for God’s existence (St. Thomas Aquinas was a Catholic…). Of course, this isn’t the case for everyone hence why we have some converting to Islam. If even they have acknowledged the majority of information surrounding Catholicism and still wish to pursue Islam, then I can simply say I wish them all the best .

Thank you,
**Eugen von Böhm-Bawerk
**

This is exactly what I believe. I just joined the Church less than a year ago. It is the only religion that makes sense.

Otherwise, good thoughts sir, usually I see you asking questions but your response about ‘outward-piousness’ was good and got me thinking

 

[GraceDK]

The muslims love to parade catholic converts to Islam ; do we welcome Catholics back and advertise the door home for many who have lost their way. Do we explore their experiences to help prevent more people into the false doctrine of Islam and use their experiences to help others return and also in or work at converting muslims to the teaching and church of their Messiah.

Love and Respect

There are some things that can solve the problem:

-New evangelisation.
I have a friend who became a Muslim. He was baptised in the Catholic church as a child but his parents never taught him anything about the faith and didn’t practice it. They verbally abused him and he became a very impure and messed up young guy. When he met Muslims he met some people who had a clear group identity, a clear set of morals which he needed, and so he joined Islam. I spoke about this with him confidently and he admitted to me I knew more about islam than he did. After a while he refused to talk about religion with me although our friendship continues.
He is just another lost soul who needs Christianity in a world where Christianity seems to be hiding /people are not willing to evangelise. Many Catholics don’t have a personal relationship with Christ and thats the biggest problem. They point at the Church as a traditional place of say, a cultural identity, but they dont know the Bible and they can’t give a personal testimony.
(Thats why Evangelicals make better missionaries to the Muslims).

• The Church itself seemes confused. Not only do we have a divided Christian world - a BAD witness - but we also have a catechism that basically says we worship the same god as the Muslims, which is of course not true, because there is only one meaningful way of religious language and that is to say that the spirit who reveals a revelation is spirit of the truth or the lie. I have been in contact with former Muslims, now Evangelicals, who say that they indeed had another god in Islam.
  I spoke with some Catholic priests stationed in the Middle East. they boasted of how good friends they were with their “moslem brothers”, but they had to admit that it was at the expense of Christian rights… These priests would not even baptise new Christians because it would pose a threat to their own lives. I felt they sold out the Gospel to keep their position of peace under a tyranny that should be fought bravely by the church.
  I had heard Evangelicals accuse the traditional churches of this unwillingness to heroically help former Muslims in this country, but I hoped it wasn’t true.

People who convert from Islam to Christianity receive death-threats even in Europe. Some have said that the Church is in a coma… it seems a bit like it in this area…

 

[Glennonite]

I am also an on-the-fence Catholic; I am an atheist/agnostic or a Catholic. I guess you could say it’s all or nothing with me. I absolutely love the Mass…I just can’t get that belief in God thing going. Lent is my attempt to reconcile…

 

[thirddec]

to Glennonite ; Hope is the greatest gift and its clear you still have hope otherwise you would probably have jumped of the fence. Pray in hope for greater faith and while you pray why don’t you work on deepening your understanding of your catholic faith. I’m comming back to practice after a long absence and my greatest proof for the truth of my faith I find in Saturday morning service at my parish when a group of mentally impaired people are brought out of their home for mass and i see the genuine pleasure they take from being there. There is no strife or agitation ; there is noise but its happy and when they leve they are all smiles and friendly. Look for God in the simple things.

Love and Respect

 

[mark_avery]

The attitude of some catholics against islam,sounds more protestant than true,the way the west invades and attacks islamic countrys,its easy to see why the islamics reject the faith,less than more though,but still!

Always welcome home, the return of aberration people.

 

[GraceDK]

The attitude of some catholics against islam,sounds more protestant than true,the way the west invades and attacks islamic countrys,its easy to see why the islamics reject the faith,less than more though,but still!

Always welcome home, the return of aberration people.

This is a bit extreme. Do I have to join the Protestants in order to be with people who have courage to say that Islam is an evil?
I know some people like to blame Western imperialism for every thing bad that happens in the non-christian countries.
However, Muhammed lived in the 7th century and that is when he tried to make an Islamic state, used the sword litterally to slay his opponents, had severel wives (one was only 9 when he slept with her). He is the role model for every serious Muslim and the non-muslims and women in the Islamic world pay an often heavy price in this sick ideological system. Look eg. at Yemen, Palestine, Pakistan, Irac, Saudi Arabia or Somalia.

You can say it’s a Protestant idea only, but then you are simply not educated. I urge you to study the Quran and the Hadith. The Church has always, at least theoretically, stood up against false ideologies and destructive world views. And it has passed on the Word of God that there is only found salvation in the name of Christ, and that we all have a command to evangelize.

Let us call Islam what it is, a totalitarian system that has countless victims wherever its held by the majority. Study the sharia… that is a part of true Islam whether you wish it to be or not. (I am not talking about muslims who don’t take their faith seriously at all) Even in Europe Jews are fleeing because of Muslim immigrantion. Our muslims here say quite openly that they want to have sharia when they are more in number. Sharia meaning we, the natives, will be second ranking citizens, we will not be allowed to repair churches, converts to Christianity from Islam can be killed by any Muslim, thiefs will have their hands cut off, adulterers will be stoned, polygamy will be accepted. etc. I assure you this is practiced in the Islamic world and because the Christian world is so eager to say we surrender - because of secularisation and self-esteem issues due to the colonisation or the wars in the last decade - we will soon not be able to critizise Islam in our schools in Europe. Large numbers of our immigrants think critizism of Muhammed should be illegal like it is in their own countries.

Welcome to reality. I think that JP2 would have fought Islam if he had been informed about its doctrines and practices. Its not very different from Communism… they both seek to make a pure society on earth, with violence and suppression if necessary. Both are by nature anti-democratic.

 

[trdchubi]

Here is one Good site of muslim converts to Catholicism.

christtotheworld.blogspot.com/search/label/Convert%20from%20Islam%20to%20Catholic

 

[puzzleannie]

The muslims love to parade catholic converts to Islam ; do we welcome Catholics back and advertise the door home for many who have lost their way. Do we explore their experiences to help prevent more people into the false doctrine of Islam and use their experiences to help others return and also in or work at converting muslims to the teaching and church of their Messiah.

Love and Respect

of course we welcome any Catholic back or any convert from another faith. What we do not do is violate their privacy and use them or their experiences as marketing tools.

 

[Glennonite]

This is a bit extreme. Do I have to join the Protestants in order to be with people who have courage to say that Islam is an evil?
I know some people like to blame Western imperialism for every thing bad that happens in the non-christian countries.
However, Muhammed lived in the 7th century and that is when he tried to make an Islamic state, used the sword litterally to slay his opponents, had severel wives (one was only 9 when he slept with her). He is the role model for every serious Muslim and the non-muslims and women in the Islamic world pay an often heavy price in this sick ideological system. Look eg. at Yemen, Palestine, Pakistan, Irac, Saudi Arabia or Somalia.

You can say it’s a Protestant idea only, but then you are simply not educated. I urge you to study the Quran and the Hadith. The Church has always, at least theoretically, stood up against false ideologies and destructive world views. And it has passed on the Word of God that there is only found salvation in the name of Christ, and that we all have a command to evangelize.

Let us call Islam what it is, a totalitarian system that has countless victims wherever its held by the majority. Study the sharia… that is a part of true Islam whether you wish it to be or not. (I am not talking about muslims who don’t take their faith seriously at all) Even in Europe Jews are fleeing because of Muslim immigrantion. Our muslims here say quite openly that they want to have sharia when they are more in number. Sharia meaning we, the natives, will be second ranking citizens, we will not be allowed to repair churches, converts to Christianity from Islam can be killed by any Muslim, thiefs will have their hands cut off, adulterers will be stoned, polygamy will be accepted. etc. I assure you this is practiced in the Islamic world and because the Christian world is so eager to say we surrender - because of secularisation and self-esteem issues due to the colonisation or the wars in the last decade - we will soon not be able to critizise Islam in our schools in Europe. Large numbers of our immigrants think critizism of Muhammed should be illegal like it is in their own countries.

Amen. I’ve been trying to be charitable towards, and respectful of, the Islamic faith for about a decade. I’m finished. This sword-wielding “faith” (based on one man’s “revelation”) had slain most unbelievers from Saudi to mid-France in their first 100 years. They have always had what I would call, an insane view of how the world should believe, think, and do.

None of this Islamic world view involves free will, nor the dignity of humanity (much less, the dignity of women). This is not a replay of the Crusades, this is closer to a replay of Alexander the Great’s attempt to introduce DEMOCRACY to the Middle East in 76 BC.

Islam, (and specifically this concept of Sharia) is against EVERYONE else. Christians, Jews, Atheists, democracies in general, and even certain sub-groups of Islam itself are all under real fire from Islam. I have had enough. It’s a shame really; there was a time when Islam held a great wealth of intellect, science, medicine, and technology…

 

[thirddec]

of course we welcome any Catholic back or any convert from another faith. What we do not do is violate their privacy and use them or their experiences as marketing tools.

Excellent point;but I didn’t actually mean the video parades of Muslims but maybe be exploring at a more private level with their willing consent and no coersion we as a church can be greater understanding of the issues may be better placed to protect our flock and rescue the strays.

Love and Respect

 

[GraceDK]

Lets hear from a former Muslim what he thinks:

youtube.com/watch?v=aoCLzDTlmhw

An eye opener.
Some Catholics try to bury their heads in the sand in the name of a false tolerance.
But if Christians don’t serve the Truth then who will?

 

[VivienneJ]

I spoke with some Catholic priests stationed in the Middle East. they boasted of how good friends they were with their “moslem brothers”, but they had to admit that it was at the expense of Christian rights… These priests would not even baptise new Christians because it would pose a threat to their own lives.** I felt they sold out the Gospel to keep their position of peace under a tyranny that should be fought bravely by the church.**

Please remember that Catholics living in Middle Eastern countries need these Catholic priests, in some ways more than folks living in western countries do. We need them here to keep us strong in our faith - in many ways they are missionaries simply by the act of ministering to the faithful living here.

Also remember that while most Middle Eastern countries allow Christian worship, the forbid proselytization, which could make adult baptisms difficult, I suppose. However, certainly in the country where I am, all the sacraments are freely offered.

The sentence I bolded is your opinion; the conditions under which Christian churches are allowed to operate in a Muslim state are dictated by that Muslim state and are known when the church is established.

 

[GraceDK]

Please remember that Catholics living in Middle Eastern countries need these Catholic priests, in some ways more than folks living in western countries do. We need them here to keep us strong in our faith - in many ways they are missionaries simply by the act of ministering to the faithful living here.

Also remember that while most Middle Eastern countries allow Christian worship, the forbid proselytization, which could make adult baptisms difficult, I suppose. However, certainly in the country where I am, all the sacraments are freely offered.

The sentence I bolded is your opinion; the conditions under which Christian churches are allowed to operate in a Muslim state are dictated by that Muslim state and are known when the church is established.

Dear Vivienne.
Most countries in the Middle east have Christian minorities that go back to the time before Islam. Now they live under tyranny.

Religious freedom and freedom of conscience are human rights which Islamic states do not respect.
Please do not say that Christians should not be civilly disobedient in such countries.

I read a book which is very famous about an Egyptian man who meets Christ, - his dad runs after him with a sword - and he wants to be baptised and helped by the church, but when he comes to the coptic church the door is slammed in his head. He wants to risk his life by becoming a baptised member of the Church but the priest fears for his own life. This famous testimony ends up critizising traditional churches in Egypt (incl. the Catholic Church) for their fear. He had to go to Evangelical ministers who would baptize him.

Now I hope that we can all agree that priests who refuse to baptise people at any place, should emigrate to safe places and have more courageous men sent to their positions.
The priest with whom I spoke however said: well the Egyptian inhabitants, if they wanna get baptised so much, can emigrate.
Wrong. He was the one who should leave and send another priest.

 

[VivienneJ]

Dear Vivienne.
Most countries in the Middle east have Christian minorities that go back to the time before Islam. Now they live under tyranny.

Religious freedom and freedom of conscience are human rights which Islamic states do not respect.
Please do not say that Christians should not be civilly disobedient in such countries.

I read a book which is very famous about an Egyptian man who meets Christ, - his dad runs after him with a sword - and he wants to be baptised and helped by the church, but when he comes to the coptic church the door is slammed in his head. He wants to risk his life by becoming a baptised member of the Church but the priest fears for his own life. This famous testimony ends up critizising traditional churches in Egypt (incl. the Catholic Church) for their fear. He had to go to Evangelical ministers who would baptize him.

Now I hope that we can all agree that priests who refuse to baptise people at any place, should emigrate to safe places and have more courageous men sent to their positions.
The priest with whom I spoke however said: well the Egyptian inhabitants, if they wanna get baptised so much, can emigrate.
Wrong. He was the one who should leave and send another priest.

This is what comes of using the term Middle East which encompasses many different countries - you are thinking of Egypt where there are many problems of Christian persecution, or so I’ve heard; I’m thinking of what I experience daily in the United Arab Emirates, a very different situation. The differences in the countries of the Middle East are as great as the differences in the countries of Europe.

I do not know for sure, but it is most likely that a Christian who was civilly disobedient in this country, where I am, would have their visa cancelled and be sent back to their home country.

I do not know if proselytizing is illegal in Egypt, I do know it is here.

 

[Jerome_D_7]

In reaching out as Catholics to our Muslin neighbors, coworkers, etc., I would first compliment them for the intensity of their worship; something we Catholics would do well to emulate in regard to our own true Triune God.

When we find the right moment, we might ask our Muslim acquaintance what he or she thinks of The Yemeni Koranic Parchments, discovered in 1972. This cache of pages of the Koran are without the vowel signs and diacritical marks essential for proper translation. Carbon-dated to within a decade or two of the death of the Prophet Muhammad in 632, they may well be the earliest known version of the Koran.

According to several scholars, the predominant language of the place and time where Muhammad lived was not Arabic but Syro-Aramaic (Syriac) At least one scholar is quoted as saying that the Koran, properly translated, is more or less harmonious with the New Testament and Syriac Christian liturgy. This author and at least one other have also written that a properly translated Koran does not support the idea that martyrs in the cause of Islam are rewarded in heaven with many virgins. There is much more on this topic on the Internet.

Imagine the world peace that will result if these and other Syriac / Arabic–based translation efforts find that the true Koran really is more or less harmonious with the New Testament and that new translation of the Koran is accepted by Muslims worldwide.

 

[GraceDK]

This is what comes of using the term Middle East which encompasses many different countries - you are thinking of Egypt where there are many problems of Christian persecution, or so I’ve heard; I’m thinking of what I experience daily in the United Arab Emirates, a very different situation. The differences in the countries of the Middle East are as great as the differences in the countries of Europe.

I do not know for sure, but it is most likely that a Christian who was civilly disobedient in this country, where I am, would have their visa cancelled and be sent back to their home country.

I do not know if proselytizing is illegal in Egypt, I do know it is here.

Jesus never told us to only evangelise where it was safe. He told his disciples to go and make all people his disciples… He didn’t say: “if you like”, but “go and do this”
We need to obey God, not tyrants and false ideologies. If we cooperate with Islamism then we cooperate with the oppression of our own brethren and the Church gets a bad name among the heroic Christians in these regions.

Arab Emirates or Egypt… whatever, people need Christ, and they need Christians who will evangelise even when its dangerous. I just find it sad when the only ones who seem to have the gut and not make excuses are the Evangelicals… How is that?