Catholics, what is the Protestant response to Revelation 12?

[COPLAND_3]

Here is the full quote from Epiphanius of Salamis found in the Ancient Christian Commentary books.google.com/books?id=irWI6DUtPncC&lpg=PA405&dq=oecumenius&lr=&pg=PA192#v=onepage&q=oecumenius&f=true

I don’t think that there has never been a question as to who the mother of Jesus was. But what is the purpose of a commentary? Isn’t it created so that others can learn the accepted interpretation of what is being commented on (whether Scripture or something else)? In the case of Scripture, wouldn’t a commentary reflect the orthodox interpretation of the day? I may have missed it, but did the commentary by Oecumenius mention that the woman of Rev 12 was also considered to be the Old Testament Church? If not, then would you suggest that it was because THAT interpretation was OBVIOUS?

The book of Revelation was not considered canon universally for quite some time, there were a number of Greek Fathers and Syriac Fathers who were not all on board about it until the Church had defined the canon under some local councils and then to some of the bigger councils. We don’t have many ancient commentaries on Revelation, and what a treat it would have been if St. John Chrysostom, Theodoret of Cyrus, St. Ephrem the Syrian, Diodore of Tarsus, Ambrosiaster and some others would have taken a crack at it. The book of Revelation does not have an “orthodox interpretation” as you demand concerning Revelation 12, the whole book has the Church Fathers and every other interpreter coming to different conclusions, and St. Victorinus is just one who did his best but is not the voice of the Church just because his commentary is the most ancient.

 

[BerhaneSelassie]

It’s difficult to examine the context of an excerpt. However, I will point out that 1) this still does not predate the commentary by Victorinus; 2) you “forgot” to highlight the word “possible” in the excerpt; 3) he doesn’t say ANYTHING that we haven’t already agreed on (at least in principle); 4) he doesn’t give any indication that Mary was bodily assumed. I would add that if the earliest reference to Mary as the woman of Rev 12 comes from any heretic (Donatist or otherwise), that doesn’t speak well of this particular interpretation (though I won’t press this due to a lack of specific citations).

Why must you try to down play everything, St Epiphanius did not necessary affirm of deny it, the point was that interpretation of Revelation 12 as being MARY already existed in his time, that is the point of the quotation. As far as the heretic, he wrote about the same time as Epiphanius, and Donatists were pretty much Catholics who broke off, they believed the validity of the Sacrament was dependent on the holiness of the minister, ie a Mass MUST be said by a priest that have no sins on his soul for it to be valid, most of what the Donatists believed was CATHOLIC.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Seems like Mary and Jesus aren’t the only ones described physically

Revelation 11:16 (New International Version)
16And the twenty-four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God

Good point. I was working from memory in citing an argument I read awhile ago.

I’ll revise my remarks to simply say that both Mary and Jesus are described physically, and this suggests that they are BOTH bodily present in heaven.

Now, we’ll just have to work out the idea that no one can see the face of God and live, we’ll be in good shape.

 

[brightstar]

Look I ask honest questions and I get stonewalled every time. The catholics never defend anthing that they say. I am not telling everyone that they are wrong. But you openly dismiss my questions. You do not believe that non catholics should be treated with respect.

It has been very discourteous of you to treat me as less than human, by ignoring my questions. My questions may be difficult to answer, but that means there is all the more to learn in the effort of making an honest reply.

So in answer to your question;
Yes, pride is one of the seven deadly sins but that is the pride Jesus critizised the pharisees of. Very different to the pride of knowing that you are a spiritual child of the Blessed Virgin. This pride is a humble joy not one of self worship.