CCC 841 And Infallibility

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StRaphael

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I am very puzzled by CCC 841: The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]

How can Allah be the “one, merciful God” in light of all the following Quranic (and Hadith) verses?
"Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” (Hadith, Vol 1, Book 2, # 24)
"And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers, (Quran 2:191).
“Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil’s strategy is ever weak,” (Quran 4:76).
“The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter,” (Quran 5:33).
“When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 13That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment,” (Quran 8:12).
“O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred, and if there are a hundred of you they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they are a people who do not understand,” (Quran 8:65).
“Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful,” (Quran 9:5).
“O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination,” (Quran 9:73).
“O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil),” (Quran 9:123).
"…the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist… 61Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering. 62(Such has been) the course of Allah with respect to those who have gone before; and you shall not find any change in the course of Allah, (Quran 33:60-62).
“Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens…” (Quran 47:4).
“Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure,” (Surah 61:4).
“…for the Prophet said, ‘If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him,’” (Hadith Vol. 4, Book 52, #260).
"Allah’s Apostle said, “Allah guarantees (the person who carries out Jihad in His Cause and nothing compelled him to go out but Jihad in His Cause and the belief in His Word) that He will either admit him into Paradise (Martyrdom) or return him with reward or booty he has earned to his residence from where he went out,” (Hadith Vol. 9, Book 93, # 555).
“As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly)…” (Quran, 4:34).
“O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people,” (Quran 5:51).
“O people of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which he conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit [sic.] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers and say not ‘Three’ - Cease! (it is better for you! - Allah is only one God. Far is it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son…The Messiah will never scorn to be a slave unto Allah.” Quran [004.171 ]
 
Just because they worship the One True God doesn’t mean their book is inspired of God.

Jeremy
 
Just because they worship the One True God doesn’t mean their book is inspired of God.

Jeremy
 
Just because they worship the One True God doesn’t mean their book is inspired of God.

Jeremy
 
jemfinch said:
Just because they worship the One True God doesn’t mean their book is inspired of God.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with Jeremy on this. The Qur’an was revealed to us via Mohammed about 1400 years ago…

Muslims believe that the God of Abraham is The Creator. Hooray! So do we.

Muslims believe that Mohammed is a God’s Messenger/Prophet. D’oh! We can not agree on that.
 
St. Raphael,

Hello and welcome to the Catholic Answers Forums. I hope you have a blessed and fruitful time here.

You have had two very good answers already; I will agree with both of them. I would also point out that the Old Testament has its share of commandments to slaughter various towns, cities, tribes, and nations. There was apparently a time and place for this sort of thing.
  • Liberian
 
They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. Quran 005.073]

“And when the son of Mary is quoted as an example, behold! The folk laugh out, and say: Are our gods better, or is he? They raise not the objection save for argument. Nay! but they are a contentious folk. He is nothing but a slave on whom we bestowed favor, and we made him a pattern for the Children of Israel. And had we willed it we would have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth”. Quran 043.057-060]

“That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary a grave false charge; That they said (in boast): We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah. But they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them , and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjunction to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. … And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness against them (Christians) .” (Quran, 004:156-159)

"Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One (Ahmad). But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, “this is evident sorcery!” Quran 061.006]

They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah: there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him). Quran 009.031]

“Say He is God, the One and Only God, the, Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him!” Qur’an [112:1-4]

They said, “The Most Gracious has begotten a son”! You have uttered a gross blasphemy. The heavens are about to shatter, the earth is about to tear asunder, and the mountains are about to crumble. Because they claim that the Most Gracious has begotten a son. It is not befitting the Most Gracious that He should beget a son. Every single one in the heavens and the earth is a servant of the Most Gracious. He has encompassed them, and has counted them one by one. All of them will come before Him on the Day of Resurrection as individuals. Quran: [19:88-95]

In blasphemy indeed are those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: “Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and all every - one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things.” Quran 005.017]

They do blaspheme who say: “Allah is Christ the son of Mary.” But said Christ: “O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. Quran 005.072]

It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son. Glory be to Him! when He determines a matter, He only says to it, “Be”, and it is. Quran 019.035]

"We have created the heavens and the earth, and everything between them in six days, and no fatigue touched us. " Qur’an 50:38

Then [Mary] said, "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste? He said, "So (it will be) Your Lord said, "That is easy for me: and we wish to appoint him as a sign unto men and a mercy from us. It is a matter (So) decreed. Qur’an [19:20]

Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,- Quran 004.095]
 
O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things. Quran 005.054]

Or think ye that ye shall be abandoned, as though Allah did not know those among you who strive with might and main, and take none for friends and protectors except Allah, His Messenger, and the (community of) Believers? But Allah is well-acquainted with (all) that ye do. Quran 009.016]

O ye who believe! Take not my enemies and yours as friends (or protectors),- offering them (your) love, even though they have rejected the Truth that has come to you, and have (on the contrary) driven out the Prophet and yourselves (from your homes), (simply) because ye believe in Allah your Lord! Quran 060.001]

When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies. Quran 004.101]

Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. Quran 008.059-060]

When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: “Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?” Said the disciples: "We are Allah’s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims. Quran 003.052 ]

The similitude of Jesus before Allah is that of Adam: he created him from dust, then said to him, “Be”: and he was. Koran: Sura 3:59

"Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him [Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf]?” The Prophet said, “Yes,” Muhammad bin Maslama said, "Then allow me to say a (false) thing ( i.e. to deceive Kab). "The Prophet said, “You may say it,” (Hadith Vol. 5, Book 59, #369).

“Allah loves not transgressors” (2:190);

“He loves not creatures ungrateful or wicked” (2:276);

“Say: ‘Obey Allah and His Apostle;’ but if they turn back Allah loves not those who reject Faith.” (3:32);

“Allah loves not those who do wrong” (3:57, 140);

“Allah loves not the arrogant, the vainglorious” (4:36).

Thanks and God bless for your help.
 
StRaphael,

I appreciate your posts, but I’m not sure what purpose they serve. There is one God who is God (although Mohammed is most definitely NOT His prophet), and even though they have some very inaccurate things to say about Him they still worship Him.
  • Liberian
 
StRaphael,

It is true because they say enough about Him (such as that He is one, good, merciful, all-powerful, and the Creator of Heaven and Earth) that is accurate that we can recognize Him from the description.

On a human scale, if you ask my co-workers they will tell you that I’m pretty smart. If you ask my wife, she can tell you that I have done some incredibly stupid things in my day. But my coworkers and my wife are still talking about the same person.
  • Liberian
 
Thank you Liberian, Charlie, and Jeremy for your concise answers. You really made it clear to me that CCC 841 is fully truthful/accurate and now I don’t have to worry about whether it is an error in the Catechism.
 
Here are the answers to possible objections to CCC 841:

Obj. 1: “The Holy Catholic Church teaches that God cannot truly be adored except within its fold.” – Pope St. Gregory I the Great [Moralia XIV:5]
Reply 1: The CCC is not saying that the adoration is equal, and it follows LG 13 which lists the difference in degree of objective adoration as “the Catholic faithful, others who believe in Christ, and finally all mankind.”

Obj. 2: “The Catholic Church alone preserves true worship.” – Pope Pius XI
Reply 2: The above reply suffices for this objection.

Obj. 3: “A true worshipper is one whose mind has not been defiled with any false belief.” – Pope St. Leo I the Great
Reply 3: St. Leo’s comment does not rule out the fact that a person who is objectively in error could subjectively truly worship God because false belief does not truly defile someone who is not culpable for his false belief.

Obj. 4: The Quran teaches that Jesus is not God and that God is unitarian (one person and not three). Therefore it is impossible for Muslims to adore the one true God.
Reply 4: Should we call Pope Gregory VII a heretic for saying the following?: “This is the charity we owe to one another and even more we owe it to the other people, because we recognize and confess, in a different way, that is true, the One and only God, whom we glorify and venerate every day, as Creator of the centuries, Lord of this world, according to the word of the Apostle: He is our peace, who has made of the two one people” [Epistle to the King of Mauritania, c. 1076]. Should we call Jesus Christ a heretic for telling the Samaritan woman “You adore that which you know not: we adore that which we know”? [Jn 4:22]. Is St. Paul a heretic for saying that “For passing by and seeing your idols, I found an altar also, on which was written: To the Unknown God. What therefore you worship without knowing it, that I preach to you”? [Acts 17:23] Of course not.
 
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