CCC says "so that we might become God"

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flick427

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So here is the deal, I am watching this video on evolution vs. creationisim with my friend. The person giving the talk is a fundamentalist baptist of some sort that was also a scientist (hence the video). Of course, he couldn’t just talk about science and creation…NO, that would be too easy, he just had to point the finger at Mormans and Catholics :banghead: (grouping them together oddly enough) when talking about the purpose of life etc.
He pointed out how the Mormans supposedly believe they will become gods when they die, I don’t have his reference for that, then he said “and then the Catholic teaching is this”…and quoted the below segment from the Catechism of the Catholic Church. He now concluded that we believe that we became or “are” God or “a god” or whatever…so, I went home and read it to see if he was taking it out of context, and he was for the most part, but I personally would have no idea how to defend this one if it came up in conversation…any suggestions??? (the part he quoted is in bold red)…needless to say, he had some good points about science and creation, but I had a hard time believing him after his bias was suddenly thrown into the whole thing…man, what a buzz kill:mad: !..better go pray for the fundamentalist now 😉 …

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:78 "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."79 "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80 "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."81
78 2 Pt 1:4.
79 St. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939.
80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.
81 St. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4.
 
Hello flick427,
Jesus tells us that we must be begotten of God to see the kingdom of God. Acts tells us that those going to heaven will have the Holy Spirit poured out on them. How can one be begotten of God with the Holy Spirit poured out on them and not be part God. Those in the kingdom of God will be bonded to God and His Spirit for all eternity.
Do not confuse being begotten of God upon judgement day with the ‘born again’ philosophy. They have manipulated the term for self exaltation on earth.
NAB JOHN 3:3

Jesus gave him this answer: "I solemnly assure you, no one can see the reign of God unless he is begotten from above." “How can a man be born again once he is old?” retorted Nicodemus. “Can he return to his mother’s womb and be born over again?” Jesus replied: “I solemnly assure you, no one can enter into God’s kingdom without being begotten of water and Spirit.”
NAB ACTS 2:33
"Exalted at God’s right hand, he first received the promised Holy Spirit from the Father, then poured this Spirit out on us. This is what you now see and hear. David did not go up to heaven, yet David says,
‘The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool. Therefore let the whole house of Israel know beyond any doubt that **God has made both Lord and Messiah this Jesus **whom you crucified.’"


​
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
This is heresy and the meaning is taken out of context.

We can never become God. Not even the Virgin Mary can become God. No created being can become God. God always was, is and will be. **There was a time we did not exist. **So no matter how much God may fill our souls or how God-like we may become, we will never be Him. God is God and we will always be creatures of God.👋
 
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flick427:
I went home and read it to see if he was taking it out of context, and he was for the most part, but I personally would have no idea how to defend this one if it came up in conversation…any suggestions???
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The Catechism is quoting St. Athanasius.

"For the Son of God became man so that we might become God."80

80 St. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B.
Show you friend the quote from St. Athanasius in its context:
Athanasius
)De Incarnatione Verbi Dei

With Introduction by C. S. Lewis
 
1Jo 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;

It is Gods promise to us in the Bible that we will be like Jesus when we are in heaven. This is a mystery of God that no one understands fully but we are bound to believe it.
 
Hi Flick,

I dealt with this subject in an exchange with Rick Jones of Chick Publications. Mr. Jones is the author of the book Understanding Roman Catholicism. In chapter 33 of his book he maintains that the Catholic Church teaches that we a “little gods.” You can read my rebuttal of Mr. Jones’ book as well as his response at my web site Christ the King Apologetics Guild.

PAX CHRISTI

Bill
 
We are really talking about being divinized in Christ.

this is what it means to be in Christ. We become a part of the family of the Trinity in Christ as adopted Sons and take part in the Perichoresis (divine dance).

This newadvent article helps explain:
newadvent.org/cathen/01148a.htm
 
Little God of course does not mean God.

Hopefully we will be like Him, but we cannot become pre-existing, like Him.
 
tru_dvotion said:
Little God of course does not mean God.

Hopefully we will be like Him, but we cannot become pre-existing, like Him.
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Did Real Presence in the Eucharist “pre-exist” at the Last Supper before Christ’s physical sacrifice on the cross? Jesus says, “This is my body”. Jesus does not say “in future, post ressurection days, Eucharistic sacrifices, this will be my body.”

Spiritual beings and Spiritual things are omni-present to the whole of physical time. No doubt when people become Spiritually begotten of God, they too are omni present to the whole of physical time past and future as the Eucharist is.

We know that no one can ressurect into eternal life until after Christ’s ressurection. Yet before Jesus ressurection, Jesus assures us that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are not dead waiting to ressurect, but alive in heaven. This would be true in the case where Old Testament saints, who ressurect after Jesus, are then omni-present and Spiritually alive to the whole of physical past as is the case in our Spiritual Eucharist .

NAB MARK 12:18
Then some **Sadducees who hold there is no resurrection **came to him with a question …\…12:24 Jesus said: “You are badly misled, because you fail to understand the Scriptures or the power of God. When people rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage but live like angels in heaven. As to the raising of the dead, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the passage about the burning bush, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob’? He is the God of the living not of the dead, You are very much mistaken.” **NAB LUKE 20:37 **

Moses in the passage about the bush showed that the dead rise again when he called the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead but of the living. All are alive for him.
Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
 
At mass, during the preparation of the gifts, when the water and wine are mixed, the priest says, “By the mystery of this water and wine may we share in the divinity of Christ as He humbled Himself to share in our humanity”. There does not seem to be anything metaphoric about the statement. Something about us will or does share in God’s divinity. I understand our adoption and I understand that we will become one with God in heaven. But, neither indicate our becoming divine. There can be nothing vague about the statement. It either means what it says or it should be revised to say what it means. It’s kind of like the American Bishops sitting on the fence about so many issues. ‘We are not quite sure, so we’ll make the language of our position so obscure it can mean pretty much anything we want it to until we figure it out’. Our Church has a crisis in leadership. But, that’s another thread.
 
Steven Merten:
Did Real Presence in the Eucharist “pre-exist” at the Last Supper before Christ’s physical sacrifice on the cross? Jesus says, “This is my body”. Jesus does not say “in future, post ressurection days, Eucharistic sacrifices, this will be my body.”

When we partake in the Eucharist, we partake in his glorified human body, blood and soul and in his Divinity. Only the Divinity of Jesus pre-existed. His human body, blood and soul did not pre-exist. The Eucharist was instituted at the Last Supper, within the confines of time. As the humanity of Jesus did not pre exist, the Eucharist did not pre-exist either.
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michael servant:
At mass, during the preparation of the gifts, when the water and wine are mixed, the priest says, “By the mystery of this water and wine may we share in the divinity of Christ as He humbled Himself to share in our humanity”. There does not seem to be anything metaphoric about the statement. Something about us will or does share in God’s divinity. I understand our adoption and I understand that we will become one with God in heaven. But, neither indicate our becoming divine. There can be nothing vague about the statement. It either means what it says or it should be revised to say what it means. It’s kind of like the American Bishops sitting on the fence about so many issues. ‘We are not quite sure, so we’ll make the language of our position so obscure it can mean pretty much anything we want it to until we figure it out’. Our Church has a crisis in leadership. But, that’s another thread.
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Yes, but the point is this: There is only one God. Sharing in God’s divinity is not the same as becoming him. In fact we cannot become him, because the word becoming suggests a process.
 
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tru_dvotion:
Steven Merten:
When we partake in the Eucharist, we partake in his glorified human body, blood and soul and in his Divinity.
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And when was Jesus human body glorified?

At the Last Supper, before Christ’s death and ressurection, the Apostles partook in the Spiritual Real Presence of Christ emanating from His future physical death and ressurection.

Spiritual things are not under the confines of physical time.

Peace in Christ,
Steven Merten
www.ILOVEYOUGOD.com
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As someone else pointed out the Catechism is quoting Athanasius who is talking about how Christians can become Christlike as we grow in our relationship with Him. We don’t become Him, we become like Him (in love, faithfulness, and all the good stuff). The sentence to which you refer is very misleading out of context and can only be understood in the context of Athanasius’ writings.

The Catechism is supposed to make things clearer, but including this sentence out of its own context makes CCC 460 more confusing, not less. I’ve complained about this section of the CCC in a thread several months ago. Very sloppy. It gives false ammunition to Mormons and freaks Protestants out.
 
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petra:
As someone else pointed out the Catechism is quoting Athanasius who is talking about how Christians can become Christlike as we grow in our relationship with Him. We don’t become Him, we become like Him (in love, faithfulness, and all the good stuff). The sentence to which you refer is very misleading out of context and can only be understood in the context of Athanasius’ writings.

The Catechism is supposed to make things clearer, but including this sentence out of its own context makes CCC 460 more confusing, not less. I’ve complained about this section of the CCC in a thread several months ago. Very sloppy. It gives false ammunition to Mormons and freaks Protestants out.
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Thank you! EXACTLY! :yup:
 
At the Last Supper, before Christ’s death and ressurection, the Apostles partook in the Spiritual Real Presence of Christ emanating from His future physical death and ressurection.

**That is correct. But when we partake in the Eucharist, we are partaking in Christ’s “glorified” Body. **

Spiritual things are not under the confines of physical time.

**True, but in and out of the realms of physical time there remains only one God. **
**See… the biggest problem with all this is this: Humility and obedience is our ticket to heaven and there is no greater danger to the human soul than pride. **
 
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