Cdl Kasper on Papal Primacy

[Fr_Ambrose]

**Cardinal Kasper to unveil new work on papal primacy
**
ARTICLE: Oct. 11 (CWNews.com) - Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, will unveil a new work this week: a book entitled The Petrine Ministery, containing the work of both Catholic and Orthodox scholars.

The book, for which Cardinal Kasper served as editor, contains presentations delivered at a May 2003 symposium in Rome. Responding to an invitation from Pope John Paul II, who had called for new reflections on the proper exercise of papal authority, the symposium brought together a dozen theologians, equally divided between Catholic and Orthodox, to discuss papal primacy.

Msgr. Eleuterio Fortino, the secretary of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, explains that the purpose of the symposium-- and thus of the new book-- was not to solve disputes over the nature of papal authority, but to sharpen the definition of the questions at issue-- “to identify the real problems, as well as the evangelical foundation for the primacy.”

The question of papal primacy has been one of the main problems in ecumenical dialogue, particularly with the Orthodox churches. The problem became more acute with the proclamation of papal infallibility by the First Vatican Council. During his visit to Rome in June of this year, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I, the leader of the Orthodox world, remarked: “It is necessary to speak in depth about the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, papal infallibility, the position of the Pope in the structure of the Christian Church in its totality, because this is the most difficult point in our relations, which still bars the way to full communion.”

Official theological dialogue between the Catholic and Orthodox churches has been suspended since the last meeting of a joint international theological commission, held in Baltimore in 2000. At that meeting, the main topic of controversy was the status of the Eastern Catholic churches, which the Orthodox are loath to accept.

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cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=32690

 

[HagiaSophia]

Cardinal Kasper to unveil new work on papal primacy

Those of us not in his fan club and who do not approve of his machinations await it with interest I’m sure.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

HagiaSophia:

Those of us not in his fan club and who do not approve of his machinations await it with interest I’m sure.

Well, he is simply the editor of papers presented by both Catholic and Orthodox scholars.

Btw, I recall that the Orthodox were taken to task somewhere on the Forum for not bothering to respond to the Pope’s invitation to discuss the role of papal primacy. This book and the 2003 Symposium that produced it shows that there *has *been a response to the Pope’s invitation from the Orthodox side.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fr Ambrose:

Well, he is simply the editor of papers presented by both Catholic and Orthodox scholars.

Btw, I recall that the Orthodox were taken to task somewhere on the Forum for not bothering to respond to the Pope’s invitation to discuss the role of papal primacy. This book and the 2003 Symposium that produced it shows that there *has *been a response to the Pope’s invitation from the Orthodox side.

The last time he had a symposirum and invited Catholic theologians the Bishop of Cologne was so upset he publicly reprimanded him and told him that apparently the only theologians he invited were all heretics. I said a special prayer in thanksgiving for the Bishop of Cologne.

 

[Fr_Ambrose]

HagiaSophia:

The last time he had a symposirum and invited Catholic theologians the Bishop of Cologne was so upset he publicly reprimanded him and told him that apparently the only theologians he invited were all heretics. I.

Well, this time only 50% were heretics

 

[GrzeszDeL]

Fr Ambrose:

I recall that the Orthodox were taken to task somewhere on the Forum for not bothering to respond to the Pope’s invitation to discuss the role of papal primacy. This book and the 2003 Symposium that produced it shows that there *has *been a response to the Pope’s invitation from the Orthodox side.

The point is well taken; let it never be said again that the Orthodox are not volleying when the ball is in their court.

 

[hlgomez]

Much being said: the Orthodox Patriarchs wanted to maintain their own leadership authority–independently. They don’t want nobody to stomp on their authority. In other words, they wanted to lord it over the faithful. This pride of men is very hard to let go.

For God’s sake, the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Universal Church is one of service and love. Is it hard for these EO patriarchs to accept that? Or are they giving the word “primacy” a different meaning? Was there a pope in the history of the Catholic Church who exercised his leadership in a cruel way (or whatever negative way you describe it)? Are they jealous just because the pope exercises his authority in great humility and service? There are over a billion catholics worlwide–is this not enough for them to see that we maintain this unity with such a huge number of faithful, not independently, but in unity of government? Again, the Lord is saying–bend, bend to be able to unite. Without humility there can be no unity.
Pio

 

[Hesychios]

hlgomez:

In other words, they wanted to lord it over the faithful. This pride of men is very hard to let go.

Pio

Sounds to me like the pot calling the kettle black!

 

[Contarini]

:For God’s sake, the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Universal Church is one of service and love.:

Nominally. Historically that is often hard to see.

: Is it hard for these EO patriarchs to accept that? Or are they giving the word “primacy” a different meaning? Was there a pope in the history of the Catholic Church who exercised his leadership in a cruel way (or whatever negative way you describe it)?:

Absolutely. How many examples do you need? Just look at the way Pius IX rammed through the papal infallibility definition and treated the Eastern Catholic bishops with arrogance and contempt; or the espionage network maintained by Pius X’s pontificate in order to spy on “modernists” (many of them holding positions that would be uncontroversial today) and make the slightest shadow of deviation from the party line impossible; or for that matter look at the claim made by the Popes that their decisions cannot be judged or appealed. All of these are contrary to Scripture, Holy Tradition, and common justice.

In Christ,

Edwin

 

[hlgomez]

Absolutely. How many examples do you need? Just look at the way Pius IX rammed through the papal infallibility definition and treated the Eastern Catholic bishops with arrogance and contempt

How did he treated them “with arrogance and contempt”? Can you further explain your allegations, please?

or the espionage network maintained by Pius X’s pontificate in order to spy on “modernists” (many of them holding positions that would be uncontroversial today) and make the slightest shadow of deviation from the party line impossible;

Did the Isralelite didn’t spy on their enemies as well? Didn’t they commanded by Joshua to spy on their enemies while they advance to the holy land? Did God said, “STOP Joshua, what you are doing is wrong”. Is spying therefore unbiblical? What if the pope wanted to protect the Church from heretical views of modernism? Just look at what they are doing today. And BTW, the Israelites also spied on their own people. Read the Bible.

or for that matter look at the claim made by the Popes that their decisions cannot be judged or appealed.

Did Peter’s decision to judge Ananias and Saphirra regarding their contribution to the Church ever appealed by the fellow apostles and Christians and say, "C’mon Peter, you’re so cruel. Just forgive them and forget about what they did? Why do they have to die in that instant when they lied to the Church? That’s Peter exercising infallible judgment straight from the Bible!

All of these are contrary to Scripture, Holy Tradition, and common justice.

You might as well reconsider your views if they are indeed in line with the Bible, Tradition and common justice.

Pio

 

[GrzeszDeL]

Contarini:

the espionage network maintained by Pius X’s pontificate in order to spy on “modernists” (many of them holding positions that would be uncontroversial today) and make the slightest shadow of deviation from the party line impossible

I hope modern churchmen are taking note of this. The only XX century pontiff to be made a saint (in almost record time) was vigorously opposed to modernism and determined to root it out by all legitimate means at his disposal. There is a lesson in that for us all, I think.

 

[HagiaSophia]

Fr Ambrose:

Well, this time only 50% were heretics

 

[HagiaSophia]

GrzeszDeL:

I hope modern churchmen are taking note of this. The only XX century pontiff to be made a saint (in almost record time) was vigorously opposed to modernism and determined to root it out by all legitimate means at his disposal. There is a lesson in that for us all, I think.

Would that some of his sucessors had been as astute as this one.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

:For God’s sake, the primacy of the Bishop of Rome over the Universal Church is one of service and love.:

Nominally. Historically that is often hard to see.

: Is it hard for these EO patriarchs to accept that? Or are they giving the word “primacy” a different meaning? Was there a pope in the history of the Catholic Church who exercised his leadership in a cruel way (or whatever negative way you describe it)?:

Absolutely. How many examples do you need? Just look at the way Pius IX rammed through the papal infallibility definition and treated the Eastern Catholic bishops with arrogance and contempt; or the espionage network maintained by Pius X’s pontificate in order to spy on “modernists” (many of them holding positions that would be uncontroversial today) and make the slightest shadow of deviation from the party line impossible; or for that matter look at the claim made by the Popes that their decisions cannot be judged or appealed. All of these are contrary to Scripture, Holy Tradition, and common justice.

In Christ,

Edwin

A very fair summary of the problems that Catholics sometimes make for themselves, IMO.​

Arrogance, contempt for others, a spirit of domination rather than of service, do not sound too like Christ, ISTM. But what is the Church for, if not to be a visible reminder & sign of the Love of Christ ? ##