Celebrant Requests that Women Cover their Heads

[GandalfTheWhite]

We just had our first Tridentine Mass in this area since 1969 or so and it was very nice. After the Mass the celebrant mentioned a few items.

Many women had their heads covered, and he did say that while it was not mandated, it was “…the way to go” and requested that all women cover their heads at future Tridentine Masses in his wonderful Scottish burr. His comments gave me a little inward grin.

Watch the slide show and his comments, they are neat:

sanluisobispo.com/news/local/story/149961.html

I don’t see why people make an issue out of it. If I understand the OP correctly, he made a polite request. What’s wrong with that? A women can still choose to not to cover her head if she doesn’t like it. If he would request all men to wear a jacket and a tie, would people also think he overstepped his boundaries?

 

[thechrismyster]

I cover.
Yet, as much as I dislike saying it: There will be many that will scream about the fact that it was requested. And most of them will be 40yo and up. For some reason covering and feminism just don’t tend to mix as far as the PC people are concerned.

he can request head coverings… he could request men wear plaid golf pants and lavendar suit jackets with gold cufflinks.
he can do anything he wants, no skin off my knee.

does he have the right to request it … sure.

do we have ANY obligation under canon law to do as he requests … no.

headcoverings are optional. anything other than that simple 3 word sentence is embellishment no matter how you slice it.

The woman wearing the headcovering is NO different than the woman not wearing one.

regardless of opinions to the contrary… wishful thinking has never and will never be a point of fact.

The reason people protest is… is it his place to request anything? if a headcovering is not required by law, why would he even address it. THAT smacks of a rouge Priest who is ‘liberal’ - he cannot accept the normative and has to request something thats is ‘extraordinary’.

I think we take issue with these liberal Priests who take it upon themselves to request things they have no place requesting.

Sheesh. the good old days when we could just enjoy our blessed N.O. Mass without worrying about a liberal Priest coming in like a tornado and disrupting our peace.

 

[Roslyn]

I think getting into high and mighty fights over headcoverings is the height of absurdity. It’s against what Jesus taught. He discouraged the Jews from imposing their dress and dietary codes on others. He spoke out against legalism of his times.

Wearing a headcovering was the respectful norm of Bible times. The Church carried on that tradition for many years, but lets face it, times have changed unless you go to the Mid East.

To many people headcoverings are actually a symbol of the former subjegation of women.

 

[George_Waters]

I am sure this will tick a few people off and brand me some sort of liberal, but I have never understood why women should be required to cover her heads and not men. It is my understanding that head coverings are a sign of humility and I know just as many men who need to be humble as I do women. Jewish men cover their heads. If a women chooses to do so I will fully support and respect her for her humility, but it seems something far more important to some people than it is to God.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

He can request it and they can do it, but he can’t make them.

catholicexchange.com/en/node/65378

That is the best response on the issue thus far, Kirk. I also notice the author has “JCL” after her name, defining her as having a judicial licenate.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Women covering thier heads would, in my view, heighten the experience for all since this is the traditional way if the tridentine rite.

James

Is that the purpose of the Mass, EU or OU, to promote a “heightened experience”?

Time to break out the karaoke and sing “Feelings” again.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I don’t see why people make an issue out of it. If I understand the OP correctly, he made a polite request. What’s wrong with that? A women can still choose to not to cover her head if she doesn’t like it. If he would request all men to wear a jacket and a tie, would people also think he overstepped his boundaries?

The OP thought it was wonderful, gave him or her an “inward grin”. Further, we were all supposed to look at the video of the priest while he (the priest) made said comments, as said comments were “neat”.

Some of us did not agree. Some of us said nobody can force a headcovering on a woman at this time. One of us gave a very good reference. Some of us pointed out that it seems the younger crowd is looking for an “experience” what we used to call in the 60s and 70s a “happening” during Mass. Some of us said this was inappropriate, either for the EU or the OU.

The only “experience” in any Mass should be the priestly non-bloody sacrifice, and the distribution of the Blessed Sacrament, per the rubrics of EU or OU, by present canon law, in a reverent manner. That should certainly be enough “experience” for anybody.

If the OP did not want all commentary, he or she should have never posted said link and said comment.

And yes, I for one would think it out-of-bounds for a priest to request that a man wear a jacket and tie. Not every man has one.

 

[Bob_Byrnes]

i agree with Rev. Michael Bell. at least he’s encourage the women to cover their head during Mass. not the priest will say this.
don’t always mention about 1983 canon law. women do this for our Lord not for our 83 canon law…
i think all the priest including our nice pope ben16 must encourage women to cover their head during mass…

bravo rev. michael bell… god bless…

Will someone explain to me the point of having WOMEN cover their heads. Doesn’t the Church denigrate women enough(no chance for any authority in the teaching magisterium and denied ordination) without adding to it. Next thing people will want is the return to “Churching” women after childbirth so that they might return from an “unclean” status. Why not go all the way and require women to wear a Burka like the Taliban does.

 

[ThomasFrancis]

Will someone explain to me the point of having WOMEN cover their heads. Doesn’t the Church denigrate women enough(no chance for any authority in the teaching magisterium and denied ordination) without adding to it. Next thing people will want is the return to “Churching” women after childbirth so that they might return from an “unclean” status. Why not go all the way and require women to wear a Burka like the Taliban does.

Let me first state that, if the Church says that veiling is optional than that is where I stand. But to your claim that the Church denigrates women by denying them ordination, you are basically calling Christ himself misogynistic, for it is he alone who instituted the sacrament and conditions as passed down through Apostolic Succession and Tradition. If you are unable to respect Church authority, it will be truly impossible to grasp the fullness of Chritian Piety.

As far as head coverings, I have to completely disagree with your implications that it represents a tyranical attempt to supress women. Honestly, I see it as an expression of great beauty in the understanding of true femininity. Remember Our Lady wore a head-covering.

 

[Roslyn]

Mary wore a headcovering because it was the Jewish societal norm. Probably all of her peers also wore one. It is not the norm in Western societies today. I don’t think it particularly enhances femininity, or detracts from it to go without.

 

[mtr01]

What I was told by my 100 yr old great-grandmother is that it was all about humility both for men and women.

Women wore veils or hats because the amount of time they spent on elaborate hairdo’s, fixing their hair and all was seen as a sign on vanity. No offense to LilyM, but notice she said, “I look horrible in any kind of head covering”.

Men, on the other hand wore hats to cover baldness or other problems with their hair by wearing hats (not to mention hats were a sign of men’s fashion) so, as a sign of humility, they were required to remove them.

This explanation makes as much sense, if not more, than any I have heard on the subject.

 

[adrift]

Will someone explain to me the point of having WOMEN cover their heads. Doesn’t the Church denigrate women enough(no chance for any authority in the teaching magisterium and denied ordination) without adding to it. Next thing people will want is the return to “Churching” women after childbirth so that they might return from an “unclean” status. Why not go all the way and require women to wear a Burka like the Taliban does.

From another thread

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head–it is the same as if her head were shaven.

For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil.

For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man.

Paul first tells us the proper relationship of God, men and women. Christ is to man as man is to woman.

Paul then describes head coverings, first that man is NOT to wear any and second that woman is to wear head coverings, because if a woman does not wear a covering then she brings dishonor to her head, and in this case Paul is not talking about her physical head, he is talking about her man, for the man is the head of the woman as Christ is the head of the man. This means when a woman dishonors the man, she is also dishonoring Christ, who is the head of the man. Now, this dishonor wrought upon her head, the man, is the same disgrace as if she were bald, cleaned shaven.

Now notice how Paul says “For if a woman will not veil herself,” which is a negative construct, he is accusing the woman here of being unwilling to do what she is called to do, which means since she is prideful, she should then shave her head so all can see her disgrace, yet if the shaved head is too much for her, she should wear a veil. This is important: In every case Paul says the woman should be wearing a veil.

Women do not wear hats because of womens lib. It was a slow decline in wearing them and it had to do with WWII. Men also use to wear dress hats something I haven’t seen since the 60’s. It is a custom that is disappearing. The Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has ruled covering of the head is not a requirement.

 

[ThomasFrancis]

Women by veiling, have the ability to outwardly express the inner condition they (and men alike) must have when in the prescense of Our Lord in the Blessed Sacrament. That is why it is such a beautiful devotion.

By the way, why is it so important for us to conform to western customs within the Church. Does the western culture posess the path to salvation? Let’s not be afraid to boldly pronounce our faith in the Church at whatever cost to fashion.

Getting back to the OP, the Priest has every right to urge his faithful to participate in a traditional devotion of the Catholic Church. The female faithful can then assess, with obedience in mind, whether head-covering is a practice right for them. Just my thoughts.

 

[grandfather]

i think it was would be nice to wear a head covering. very sweet.

It might be more useful, rather than think about canon law, old or new, but rather what the purpose is behind women covering their heads in church. Why did it come about in the first place? Why is it an ancient custom? Is there something intrinsic to human nature that the ancients realized that started this all and might they have been right? Did they know something we have forgotten?

The point is that during worship men should be focused on prayer rather than be distracted by a pretty woman, and holy women do not want to be the cause of distractions and turn male heads. So what have we seen since the very recent time when this underatanding and custom of all ages has been discarded? I have seen women in church dressed very provocatively, in tight and revealing dress. I have seen, too frequently, women extraordinary eucharistic ministers on the altar in low cut revealing blouses and mini skirts, all dolled up with makeup and jewels.

Why do most men not care that much about their haircut? Why are men so oblivious to what colors they wear? Why do women pay so much attention to getting their hair just right, and makeup and dress? It is to be attractive. What are they trying to attract? Can’t they at least leave this and the desire for attention to how they look, and to be admired at home for an hour when they go to Mass on Sunday?

Scripture says we should look to the example of “the holy women of old”. Why? How did they conduct themselves in holiness? Was it in displaying their beauty, or covering it? What have we lost?

 

[grandfather]

• I can never find a hat in my size. And I look awful in most any type of headcovering.
  it!

This honesty does get to the point. It is a question of vanity. How do I look? I hope you like me for what I look like. Do you see me? My head or nose it too big or small and I wish my eye lashes were longer.

True beauty hides itself. It does not want to be noticed or on display. This is not merely a matter of custom, but there is spiritual significance here that is lost. We may or may not refind it.

 

[ThomasFrancis]

I agree with Grandfather, well said.

When considering veiling, Women should focus on what this action says to Christ, instead of what they think the Church’s stance is towards women. The Church’s ultimate concern is helping its faithful find their way to Christ. Salvation is their motive, pure and simple.

 

[LilyM]

This honesty does get to the point. It is a question of vanity. How do I look? I hope you like me for what I look like. Do you see me? My head or nose it too big or small and I wish my eye lashes were longer.

True beauty hides itself. It does not want to be noticed or on display. This is not merely a matter of custom, but there is spiritual significance here that is lost. We may or may not refind it.

Vanity? Then why don’t we all shave our heads and wear potato sacks and nothing else. All the rest is vanity. Including veils and hats - ever seen how many different styles and materials they come in? Like that can’t possibly ever be about looking good, being noticed, being on display? Who’s kidding who here.

And think of all the time and money you waste picking and buying one (usually more, since you need to co-ordinate with your different outfits of course) that you like, that you think suits you and your clothing, and arranging it just so. Seriously, pot, meet kettle.

Note that I said I look horrible with most forms of headcovering. That doesn’t automatically mean I look good without one - or that how it looks is my primary concern.

Don’t presume to know my motives, and in charity I’ll presume the woman next to me with the yard upon yard of artfully made and arranged lace upon her noggin that she just has to fiddle with every few minutes (as if it’s grown legs and walked off of the top of her head in the meantime) is not primarily concerned with how she looks either.

It’s a two-way street, people.

 

[Roslyn]

This honesty does get to the point. It is a question of vanity. How do I look? I hope you like me for what I look like. Do you see me? My head or nose it too big or small and I wish my eye lashes were longer.

True beauty hides itself. It does not want to be noticed or on display. This is not merely a matter of custom, but there is spiritual significance here that is lost. We may or may not refind it.

Sanctimonious is the word that springs to mind…

 

[grandfather]

Vanity? Then why don’t we all shave our heads and wear potato sacks and nothing else. All the rest is vanity. Including veils and hats - ever seen how many different styles and materials they come in? Like that can’t possibly ever be about looking good, being noticed, being on display? Who’s kidding who here.

And think of all the time and money you waste picking and buying one (usually more, since you need to co-ordinate with your different outfits of course) that you like, that you think suits you and your clothing, and arranging it just so. Seriously, pot, meet kettle…

Oops! Touched a raw nerve it seems.

So what you are saying is that it impossible for women to be free of worrying over their looks whether they cover themselves in church or not. There is no escaping it. The ones who wear a scarf are as vain or more so than the ones who get all dolled up.

Think about the issue in terms of personal freedom. Many years ago I was visiting a city where the sister of a young woman I was dating lived. We were friends and were going to go to dinner together. She was deciding what to wear and asked me my opinion if I liked this or that outfit better, holding up one after another and then after going through several repeated the questioning narrowing it down to the final choice. This exercise took over half an hour. I told her they all looked very nice and it did not matter, which did not please her. It said to her that I did not care whether or not she was attractive. I thought she was a lovely attractive person. Whatever she wanted to wear was fine, and she did not have to worry about it. Afterwards I commented in a friendly way that being so concerned with picking an outfit to wear to a dark restuarant where no one would notice seemed like creating a lot of trouble or stress where there should have been none. She did not understand this at all and responded that she enjoyed going through the exercise. I knew many Catholic girls who went to Catholic schools and hated the uniforms they were forced to wear. It allowed them to not agonize over appearance every day, to be free from this bother, but they wanted to be bothered. Nuns wear habits and the holy ones see them as a gift. They don’t need to think about what they put on. Their energies can be focused on something other than their appearances. They are free. So in response to your question about whether I want you to wear a sack and shave your head. I don’t care. Do what you want to do. It is your choice. I do think you would be happier if you did not have to be concerned with your appearance, if you had the opportunity to leave that behind for a brief monent every week. If this is impossible that is a shame.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

This thread is closed. Thank you all.