Celebrity Priests??

[Ramalama]

I have a great deal of sympathy for Father Groeschel. He seems to me to be an old man in pain, working has hard as possible to do what the Lord wants. He does seem grumpy and impatient, I would be too, and it seems to fit him. My wife and I watch him every Sunday evening and he (as well as Mother Angelica - somebody get that angle a piece of cherry pie ) have been quite important in our journey home. Oops - I forgot Fr. Pacwa, him too. God bless them all!

 

[scoobydoo6v92]

OK I may be hard on them. BUT when Fr Corapi’s gate keeper Tamra who gets to go to Mass with him and talk to him when she see the need tells me to go F myself I just can’t seem to have that homey loving peaceful feeling when thinking about Fr. Corapi. I mean think about it, I asked for five lousy minutes on the phone with him I was going through a spiritual meltdown and really wanted to talk to him because of the hell he went through. I bet when he was laying on the street he would have had a much different attitude towards me or anyone for that matter. So I guess I do not have the compassion towards these celebritys that maybe I should have,but you know what they aren’t the only ones that are busy. I had to feed 59 horses and muck stalls plus hold a night job I HATED and you know what I still had time to spend with someone in need. No excuse for bad treatment Jesus Christ would have giving me those lousy five minutes and he DID!!! The hell with the celebritys. Scoob.

 

[LilyM]

OK I may be hard on them. BUT when Fr Corapi’s gate keeper Tamra who gets to go to Mass with him and talk to him when she see the need tells me to go F myself I just can’t seem to have that homey loving peaceful feeling when thinking about Fr. Corapi. I mean think about it, I asked for five lousy minutes on the phone with him I was going through a spiritual meltdown and really wanted to talk to him because of the hell he went through. I bet when he was laying on the street he would have had a much different attitude towards me or anyone for that matter. So I guess I do not have the compassion towards these celebritys that maybe I should have,but you know what they aren’t the only ones that are busy. I had to feed 59 horses and muck stalls plus hold a night job I HATED and you know what I still had time to spend with someone in need. No excuse for bad treatment Jesus Christ would have giving me those lousy five minutes and he DID!!! The hell with the celebritys. Scoob.

Scoob, I know it’d leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth - but Tamra isn’t Father C, nor is he responsible for every word that comes out of her mouth.

Granted, nothing excuses bad language or rude treatment, but try to understand where she and Fr C are coming from.

My understanding is that he doesn’t do private counselling - for the very good reason that he must get hundreds of requests like yours every SINGLE day. Think about that. Even if he did literally nothing else and didn’t eat or sleep he STILL wouldn’t be able to give time to an awful lot of 'em. She was trying, albeit in a very rude way, to make you understand that it was impossible.

Even St Padre Pio who did spend 18 hours a day hearing confessions and counselling people, always had an awful long waiting list of people trying to see him, and didn’t get around to seeing even half of 'em. Nothing to do with being ‘too good’ for anybody, just sheer physical impossibility.

Jesus Christ does indeed have time for all, and rightly should be everyone’s first and last resort. That would be because Christ is God. Human beings are limited by having only the one body, the one pair of hands and ears, only being able to be in the one place at one time.

Fr C isn’t Christ, and possibly is not even on the same level as St Padre Pio. Cut him some slack. And cut Tamra a little bit of slack too - you were probably unfortunate enough to have been the tenth person who’d made the same type of request that hour or something.

 

[debraran]

I agree with there being so many hours in a day and they do want some time for themselves. Father C does hunt, run, etc. to relieve some stress, and he admits he has it so much better than a parish priest. He gets to travel all over, meet new faces, he’s always “new” to them, he’s on TV, writing a book, has a retreat, etc. He might be pompous at times, you can’t leave all your old self behind, but he is honest when he wants to be. He even said, and I was proud of him for admitting it, he wanted to quit and become a cloistered monk when the scandals hit…after his wonderful convsersion and meeting John Paul ll…the ego blow was tremendous. From adoration he got sneers, spitting, mixed in with the praise…no longer was he “wonderful”, he was “one of those guys”. He had to carry the sins of his brothers. He recovered though and tried to be the model priest but you can tell the glamour had him as well as the vocation at the time.

Fr. G had a cute line the other night…some guy confused him with the priests that live in nice rectories and have nice cars and said, “go home to your nice home, etc.” He said, “walk in my shoes one day and you’ll be on your knees by 11:30.” : ) He might get a lot of people giving him lunch, treats, etc. but the majority of them live on the floor, food is donated, no air c. etc.
If I became a priest/nun at Fr. Corapi’s age, I would have a hard time completely giving up my self, my habits, etc. It’s true, the mind is willing, but the flesh can be weak.

I sometimes sigh when either priest mentions his degrees at Columbia or how many masters he has, but then I got a thought that although I watch often, it’s someones first time, so I give them the benefit of the doubt now. Sometimes we are in our own boxes too…

 

[bankerdavid]

How does this all fit in with holiness? Do you think it’s a good thing to idolize, follow some of these speakers like a cult (some do) just because they are religious? I can see both sides I think, but I wonder if can be the ruin of some very good people too, just like it is with “regular celebrities”.

In this case, the problem is with the followers, not with the man. It’s not a good thing to idolize, but who is idolizing? The individual person, not the priest! I don’t idolize him, but I am probably guilty of idealizing him, but I think we do that to our parish priest as well, getting disappointed when they prove themselves to be all too human.

I feel that when Fr Corapi has his gate keeper tell me to basically go fly a kite with a much nastier wording. I feel it is time that they go to a monastery or to India and get a good dose of reality. We have a shortage of priests especially here in the Southwestern part of Missouri maybe Father Corapi needs to say mass for us little ones. Maybe he needs to go to the Trappist Monastery here in Ava and serve for 5 years. They are human and they switch one obcession for another. Father Corapi used to love the girls the lights the dice and booze now he swapped all that for his ego tripping church talks. He has a great message although so does Father _____ at our church. They all need to be “on stage” for a time period and take that same time off serving physically in places that need priests. Look charirty begins at home. We need priests and need them bad atleast here in Missouri so I feel send Fr Corapi Fr Grocel and some of the other big heads out for a year to serve where needed. When they become unapproacable it is time for them to get real and get buzy with serving parashes. I didn’t really like Cardinal Spellman’s attitude towards Bishop Sheen but he had it coming he had one heck of an ego. They put their vestments on just like Father O’Malley does in Joe sixpacktown Nebraska. Scoob.

Is your first remark anecdotal, did it actually happen to you?

Do you realize that Fr. Corapi’s Teaching of Jesus Christ took twelve months of seminars? One weekend a month. He spends the rest of his time doing missions, preaching, etc. which he talks about regularly. But he is rarely in the limelight. Do you also realize that Teaching of Christ was done 10 years ago? You say he has a great message, but so does Fr. Joe, well, be thankful, and grateful for both! Do you realize how many people EWTN reaches that do not have a priest anywhere nearby? Of course we enjoy watching along with them, but they do a service to Catholics and non-Catholics around the world, and I say God Bless Them.

 

[JW10631]

Bishop Sheen, Father Corapi, Father Groeschel, Mother Angelica…

All were people, with good traits and faults, called to serve God.

I don’t doubt for a minute that
they have been brusque or rude to people at times. Guess what? So have I.

Personally, I´m grateful for all of them.

 

[debraran]

I am grateful for anyone or anything that brings someone back to God…I guess as one poster alluded too, if “groupies” are going to follow celebrity religious and base their faith on that, it wont be longlasting. Soonr or later someone will say or do something wrong or maybe they will have a bad encounter with the person. It’s okay to say “this person does nothing for me” but to lose your faith because Sister so and so or Father so and so did something I didn’t like is wrong. We shouldn’t get the “mega church” mentality.
Finding EWTN helped me a lot but TV does have a certain power, always will. One nice poster on this board was in knots (as many of us might be) because she had to cook a meal for Fr. Corapi who was coming to her town at the rectory. She had over a month to plan, worry about what to say, etc. There were 5 other priests but of course Father C was the main attraction at dinner. It went well, she talked a bit to him and the food came out well, but I remember reading that and thinking that would be me if Sean Connery was in Father’s place. (only kidding)

 

[JW10631]

I wanted to add that Friday evening (July 27) Father Groeschel was visiting at St. Anthony Church in Monongahela, Pennsylvania (the hometown of former 49ers QB Joe Montana). Father Groeschel gave a talk about the Eucharist, and then there was Benediction, followed by a reception where Fr. Groeschel’s order sold books and there were treats for all. My wife took a video of herself with Fr. Groeschel, and Fr. Groeschel happily signed a book for me.

We were glad to have had the opportunity to meet with him.

 

[mystified]

Don’t watch TV much since the last one burnt out three years ago.

My idea of a celebrity priest would be the late Abp. Fulton Sheen, or Bl. Pope John Paul II.

 

[debraran]

I was reading about Father Calloway’s experience with sex, drugs and rock and roll after seeing him on “Journey Home” show on EWTN. I fell asleep half way through but that was no reflection on him, I was just tired. I googled him the next morning and read his story. Does he travel much? Living in CT, we don’t get very many relgious speakers, at least Catholic ones for whatever reason. Too liberal I guess…Fr. Corapi joked when he was in Mass. he was “scared to come”, maybe CT is like that too.

It’s funny how some people are given so much grace like Fr. Calloway and others, also not asking for any, and don’t seem to get it. So many mysteries in life.

 

[chewchoo]

I was reading about Father Calloway’s experience with sex, drugs and rock and roll after seeing him on “Journey Home” show on EWTN. I fell asleep half way through but that was no reflection on him, I was just tired. I googled him the next morning and read his story. Does he travel much? Living in CT, we don’t get very many relgious speakers, at least Catholic ones for whatever reason. Too liberal I guess…Fr. Corapi joked when he was in Mass. he was “scared to come”, maybe CT is like that too.

It’s funny how some people are given so much grace like Fr. Calloway and others, also not asking for any, and don’t seem to get it. So many mysteries in life.

i had never heard of fr. calloway. his is a very powerful story!

God’s plan is mysterious, many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[WmJackP]

In this case, the problem is with the followers, not with the man. It’s not a good thing to idolize, but who is idolizing? The individual person, not the priest! I don’t idolize him, but I am probably guilty of idealizing him, but I think we do that to our parish priest as well, getting disappointed when they prove themselves to be all too human.

Is your first remark anecdotal, did it actually happen to you?

Do you realize that Fr. Corapi’s Teaching of Jesus Christ took twelve months of seminars? One weekend a month. He spends the rest of his time doing missions, preaching, etc. which he talks about regularly. But he is rarely in the limelight. Do you also realize that Teaching of Christ was done 10 years ago? You say he has a great message, but so does Fr. Joe, well, be thankful, and grateful for both! Do you realize how many people EWTN reaches that do not have a priest anywhere nearby? Of course we enjoy watching along with them, but they do a service to Catholics and non-Catholics around the world, and I say God Bless Them.

I am curious about the nearly 2 million dollar award realized by Fr. Corapi in 2005 as a result of his Qui Tam suit. After receiving it, did he actually abide by the reputed vow of poverty? I am even more curious why the Vatican cannot disbuse sums of money from its billion and billions to alleviate the immense poverty experienced even in the City of Rome. There is all this hype about “giving from the heart” and altruism and benovolent caring–and this immense store of resource possessed by the church—why is it not doled out to the suffering masses?

 

[bankerdavid]

I am curious about the nearly 2 million dollar award realized by Fr. Corapi in 2005 as a result of his Qui Tam suit. After receiving it, did he actually abide by the reputed vow of poverty? I am even more curious why the Vatican cannot disbuse sums of money from its billion and billions to alleviate the immense poverty experienced even in the City of Rome. There is all this hype about “giving from the heart” and altruism and benovolent caring–and this immense store of resource possessed by the church—why is it not doled out to the suffering masses?

Do you know for a fact that he has a vow of poverty? I think it was more like $8 million, and I don’t know what he did with it (or does). But I don’t know that SOLT priests take a vow of poverty. Many priests do not take a vow of poverty. Diocesan priests are not expected to, in fact, receive a salary.

Regarding the “billions and billions” the Vatican has, where do you get that idea? The Vatican operates on a deficit budget. Relies on one collection a year, a second collection at that, from each parish in the world.

 

[WmJackP]

Do you know for a fact that he has a vow of poverty? I think it was more like $8 million, and I don’t know what he did with it (or does). But I don’t know that SOLT priests take a vow of poverty. Many priests do not take a vow of poverty. Diocesan priests are not expected to, in fact, receive a salary.

Regarding the “billions and billions” the Vatican has, where do you get that idea? The Vatican operates on a deficit budget. Relies on one collection a year, a second collection at that, from each parish in the world.

**No I guess I didn’t know that Fr. C may be freed from what I called his “reputed vow of poverty”. I just had hoped that this might be the case because he speaks as though charity is a much desired virtue. But, so what? He did well with his Qui Tam suit. That may explain the gated reception area described by one of the other contributors.

I have read a few things about the Vatican that more or less made me think it could afford a few lira to help out our brothers and sisters. Prof. Thomas J. Reese’s book, for example, “Inside the Vatican” (Harvard University Press, 1996 where he describes the finances of the Vatican (pp 202-229). Indeed from 1970 to 1993 there appears to have been a deficit based on "the Vatican Bank’s own analysis. In 1994 Price Waterhouse (an independent audit was done) found profits of 4 million annually and bank deposits of 40 billion.

Of course, I’m no 'fessional when it comes to things like this, but, I do have it on very good authority that before the priestly hierarchy castigate people in the pews for not anteing up their tithe, the plank should be removed from its own eye.**

 

[bankerdavid]

**No I guess I didn’t know that Fr. C may be freed from what I called his “reputed vow of poverty”. I just had hoped that this might be the case because he speaks as though charity is a much desired virtue. But, so what? He did well with his Qui Tam suit. That may explain the gated reception area described by one of the other contributors.

I have read a few things about the Vatican that more or less made me think it could afford a few lira to help out our brothers and sisters. Prof. Thomas J. Reese’s book, for example, “Inside the Vatican” (Harvard University Press, 1996 where he describes the finances of the Vatican (pp 202-229). Indeed from 1970 to 1993 there appears to have been a deficit based on "the Vatican Bank’s own analysis. In 1994 Price Waterhouse (an independent audit was done) found profits of 4 million annually and bank deposits of 40 billion.

Of course, I’m no 'fessional when it comes to things like this, but, I do have it on very good authority that before the priestly hierarchy castigate people in the pews for not anteing up their tithe, the plank should be removed from its own eye.**

How is it that preaching that charity is a virtue is equal to castigating people in the pews? Explaining the virtues and reminding us of our duty to fellow man is not castigation.

The richness of the Vatican is a stupid urban legend. They have run on a deficit for some time (note that the report you cited is 15 years old…)and do not have great liquid assets. All parishes around the world operate as separate independent entities. The Vatican are the custodians of art treasures but many like the frescos in the Sistine Chapel cannot be bought and move and cost big euros to mantain, preserve and insure.

You don’t need conspiracy theories to be dazzled by alleged Vatican wealth. The Vatican museums groan with some of the greatest artistic treasures known to humanity, and at least some of the Vatican officials live and work in exquisite Baroque structures whose cash value defies reckoning.

Over the years, these riches have scandalized and disillusioned many Christians who fail to see the connection between playing international currency markets and following Jesus.

Reality is more prosaic. To put it bluntly, the Vatican is not rich. It has an annual operating budget of $260 million, which would not place it on any top 500 list of social institutions. To draw a comparison to the nonprofit sector, Harvard University has an annual operating budget of a little over $1.3 billion, which means it could run the equivalent of five Vaticans. This is to say nothing of the corporate world. Microsoft in 2002 spent $4.7 billion on research and development alone and has annual sales of $293 billion. On the scale of the world’s mammoth enterprises, the Vatican doesn’t rate.

But is the Vatican sitting on a pile of wealth–such as real estate or artwork–that doesn’t show up in its annual budget? Michelangelo’s Pieta statue, the Sistine Chapel, or Raphael’s famous frescoes are all listed on the Vatican books at a value of 1 euro each. From the Vatican’s point of view, they are part of the artistic heritage of the world and may never be sold or borrowed against.

One could argue that the personnel of the Holy See profit because they live and work in the midst of all this gorgeous art, but that doesn’t pay the rent or build up retirement savings. Moreover, only the lucky personnel at the Secretariat of State have offices with ceilings…"

Also, there is no air conditioning in the Vatican, except in those spaces where the artwork is preserved. By the way, where are the Buddhists with their giving to the poor? I’ve seen 50 foot tall Buddhas in Thailand, Cambodia, and some very beautiful monasteries which all could be sold off and melted and given to the poor…

 

[WmJackP]

How is it that preaching that charity is a virtue is equal to castigating people in the pews? Explaining the virtues and reminding us of our duty to fellow man is not castigation.

The richness of the Vatican is a stupid urban legend. They have run on a deficit for some time (note that the report you cited is 15 years old…)and do not have great liquid assets. All parishes around the world operate as separate independent entities. The Vatican are the custodians of art treasures but many like the frescos in the Sistine Chapel cannot be bought and move and cost big euros to mantain, preserve and insure.

You don’t need conspiracy theories to be dazzled by alleged Vatican wealth. The Vatican museums groan with some of the greatest artistic treasures known to humanity, and at least some of the Vatican officials live and work in exquisite Baroque structures whose cash value defies reckoning.

Over the years, these riches have scandalized and disillusioned many Christians who fail to see the connection between playing international currency markets and following Jesus.

Reality is more prosaic. To put it bluntly, the Vatican is not rich. It has an annual operating budget of $260 million, which would not place it on any top 500 list of social institutions. To draw a comparison to the nonprofit sector, Harvard University has an annual operating budget of a little over $1.3 billion, which means it could run the equivalent of five Vaticans. This is to say nothing of the corporate world. Microsoft in 2002 spent $4.7 billion on research and development alone and has annual sales of $293 billion. On the scale of the world’s mammoth enterprises, the Vatican doesn’t rate.

But is the Vatican sitting on a pile of wealth–such as real estate or artwork–that doesn’t show up in its annual budget? Michelangelo’s Pieta statue, the Sistine Chapel, or Raphael’s famous frescoes are all listed on the Vatican books at a value of 1 euro each. From the Vatican’s point of view, they are part of the artistic heritage of the world and may never be sold or borrowed against.

One could argue that the personnel of the Holy See profit because they live and work in the midst of all this gorgeous art, but that doesn’t pay the rent or build up retirement savings. Moreover, only the lucky personnel at the Secretariat of State have offices with ceilings…"

Also, there is no air conditioning in the Vatican, except in those spaces where the artwork is preserved. By the way, where are the Buddhists with their giving to the poor? I’ve seen 50 foot tall Buddhas in Thailand, Cambodia, and some very beautiful monasteries which all could be sold off and melted and given to the poor…

**Dave: This is not an argument by which we can persuade the other. You clearly are convinced of an insolvent Vaticant. I feel that am well researched, and, I am not so persuaded. So we disagree.

Castigating people in pews verses reminding people in the pews of their obligations? We both are revelling in verbage without making our points understood. My very simple observation is that Fr. C has appears to me (this is subjective) to be someone who has found a financial niche based upon physical appeal and public persona. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. He might be one swell guy. However, “swellness” doesn’t usually (in my experience) square up with gated living, product concessions and a willingness to pursue malpractice claims when one has not himself suffered any physical injury.

So, in concluding this discussion, you seem like a reasonable intelligent person but I am afraid we have little in common. I operate and function from a predicate of evidence and reason. Faith is a word that I hear people use when they have no basis on which to rest their beliefs. I can understand somebody saying they have a hunch (which is what I have in discussing Fr. C) because a hunch is based on experience. But faith is out there with nothing to hang from. Sorry.**

 

[Cristiano]

…I operate and function from a predicate of evidence and reason. Faith is a word that I hear people use when they have no basis on which to rest their beliefs…

First you are a liar because in the first of five posts you committed to come here and not to insult people. By your 5th post you use a generalized statement to insult the faith of individuals.

If you are a lawyer you know that fallacies might steer conversations in one direction and even convince people; however, you also know that they are not part of a honest and constructive debate.

You come here with assumptions that have been challenged, you do not like the challenge and so you use a put down toward the posters that challenge you. It is an old and proven method, but not a sign of intellectual honesty

 

[bankerdavid]

**Dave: This is not an argument by which we can persuade the other. You clearly are convinced of an insolvent Vaticant. I feel that am well researched, and, I am not so persuaded. So we disagree.

Castigating people in pews verses reminding people in the pews of their obligations? We both are revelling in verbage without making our points understood. My very simple observation is that Fr. C has appears to me (this is subjective) to be someone who has found a financial niche based upon physical appeal and public persona. Could I be wrong? Absolutely. He might be one swell guy. However, “swellness” doesn’t usually (in my experience) square up with gated living, product concessions and a willingness to pursue malpractice claims when one has not himself suffered any physical injury.

So, in concluding this discussion, you seem like a reasonable intelligent person but I am afraid we have little in common. I operate and function from a predicate of evidence and reason. Faith is a word that I hear people use when they have no basis on which to rest their beliefs. I can understand somebody saying they have a hunch (which is what I have in discussing Fr. C) because a hunch is based on experience. But faith is out there with nothing to hang from. Sorry.**

You say you operate from evidence and reason, yet you use opinion to put down Fr. Corapi. Priests are champions of the downtrodden and those who are unjustly taken advantage of. Fr. Corapi used his resources to do just such a thing, and in the process, a settlement came through. Also as a result, he had death threats against him that were serious enough for his order to move him to a remote protected location. He travels with bodyguards because the threat is real. I don’t have direct knowledge of Fr. Corapi, but I do have direct knowledge of other itinerant preachers who travel to places to speak, either on their own dime or for the cost of travel, receiving no salary or stipend for the effort. They do take up collections and sell materials, the proceeds of which are used to further their mission.
When you say you’re well researched don’t you usually ask the target for financial records, or do you just try to suppose what you think they make? I don’t see any evidence in any secular publication which I would believe to be credible, because they haven’t asked the Vatican to produce their records, and given no reason why they should, they estimate. That’s great research. At least we know where you’re coming from.

 

[Monica4316]

Scoob, I know it’d leave you with a bitter taste in your mouth - but Tamra isn’t Father C, nor is he responsible for every word that comes out of her mouth.

Granted, nothing excuses bad language or rude treatment, but try to understand where she and Fr C are coming from.

My understanding is that he doesn’t do private counselling - for the very good reason that he must get hundreds of requests like yours every SINGLE day. Think about that. Even if he did literally nothing else and didn’t eat or sleep he STILL wouldn’t be able to give time to an awful lot of 'em. She was trying, albeit in a very rude way, to make you understand that it was impossible.

Even St Padre Pio who did spend 18 hours a day hearing confessions and counselling people, always had an awful long waiting list of people trying to see him, and didn’t get around to seeing even half of 'em. Nothing to do with being ‘too good’ for anybody, just sheer physical impossibility.

Jesus Christ does indeed have time for all, and rightly should be everyone’s first and last resort. That would be because Christ is God. Human beings are limited by having only the one body, the one pair of hands and ears, only being able to be in the one place at one time.

Fr C isn’t Christ, and possibly is not even on the same level as St Padre Pio. Cut him some slack. And cut Tamra a little bit of slack too - you were probably unfortunate enough to have been the tenth person who’d made the same type of request that hour or something.

that is very true, but I also read that St Padre Pio never turned anyone away if he had time, and if they needed help… the exception was if someone was there for some silly reason or out of curiosity. But if they needed help he always welcomed them, especially the poor and the sick.

I’m not saying anything about Fr Corapi at all, I’ve never met him, - I do enjoy his talks on EWTN I just wanted to make that comment on St Padre Pio.

Do you know for a fact that he has a vow of poverty? I think it was more like $8 million, and I don’t know what he did with it (or does). But I don’t know that SOLT priests take a vow of poverty. Many priests do not take a vow of poverty. Diocesan priests are not expected to, in fact, receive a salary.

Regarding the “billions and billions” the Vatican has, where do you get that idea? The Vatican operates on a deficit budget. Relies on one collection a year, a second collection at that, from each parish in the world.

the Vatican doesn’t have “billions and billions” of dollars lol, that’s a myth… there’s just a lot of artwork