Celibacy and Adam

[John_AH]

Here is a excerpt from The truth and meaning of human sexuality. by The Pontifical Council for the Family

It covers most of what we are talking about.

1. The gift of God: this great truth and basic fact stands at the centre of the Christian conscience of parents and their children. Here we refer to the gift which God has given us in calling us to life, to exist as man or woman in an unrepeatable existence, full of endless possibilities for growing spiritually and morally: “human life is a gift received in order then to be given as a gift.” John Paul II, Encyclical Letter, Evangelium Vitae, March 25, 1995, 92; AAS (1995), p. 506. “In fact the gift reveals, so to speak, a particular characteristic of human existence, or rather, of the very essence of the person. When God Yahweh says that ‘it is not good that man should be alone’ (Genesis 2:18), he affirms that ‘alone’, man does not completely realize his existence. He realizes it only by existing ‘with some one’—and even more deeply and completely: by existing ‘for some one’.” John Paul II, General Audience, January 9, 1980, 2; L’Osservatore Romano, English edition, January 14, 1989, p. 1. Married love is fulfilled in openness to the other person and in self-giving, taking the form of a total gift that belongs to this state of life. Moreover, the vocation to the consecrated life always finds its meaning in self-giving, sustained by a special grace, the gift of oneself “to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner” Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2349. in order to serve him more fully in the Church. Therefore, in every condition and state of life, this gift comes to be ever more wondrous by redeeming grace, through which we become “partakers of the divine nature” (2 Peter 1:4) and are called to live the supernatural communion of love together with God and with our brothers and sisters. Even in the most delicate situations, Christian parents cannot forget that the gift of God is there, at the very basis of all personal and family history.

 

[SilentKnight]

So, John, what would your own answer to PR’s question be then in light of the passage you’ve just cited…?

SK

 

[John_AH]

"the vocation to the consecrated life always finds its meaning in self-giving, sustained by a special grace, the gift of oneself “to God alone with an undivided heart in a remarkable manner” Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2349. in order to serve him more fully in the Church’

In a nut shell “celibacy” alowes them to do their job better. It is just like I believe Paul says that the dividedness of having a family and serving God full time is too much. I need to look up the quote.

It has a lot to do with “the first shall be last”. Meaning our leaders have to sacrifice/Love the most for the good of God’s children.

God’s faithful servant,
John A. H.

 

[SilentKnight]

1 Cor 7:32-34, “The unmarried man is anxious about the affairs of the Lord, how to please the Lord; but the married man is anxious about worldly affairs, how to please his wife, and his interests are divided.”

I would submit to you that celibacy only allows a priest to “do his job better” if he is called to it in the first place. That is to say that the argument that celibacy is in place “so that priests will have more time” is misguided. As, partially, is the argument that priests foresake natural marriage as a sheer matter of will, in order to “make it hurt more”, or to make their sacrifice to the Lord more potent. This is not the reason for consecrated celibacy.

The man that tries to live a celibate life when he is not called to it is asking for problems. (See 1 Cor 7:1-6.)

I would submit to you that the one we marry, we “join flames with”. We are called to be light to the world, right? In marriage, we take the match stick within us and combine it with that of our spouse’s, thereby creating a larger single flame than we would have held on our own. The consecrated celibate unites his sexuality with and in a literal, though, of course, mystical sense, “weds” the Lord, who is no mere match stick, but a large bonfire instead. Unite the flame from your match with a bonfire and what do you have?

A darned big flame with which to light the world, no?!

That is the purpose of the celibate life - greater love - for those who are called to it.

That said…You still haven’t answered PR’s original question. lol



SK

 

[down_under]

A very interesting post, DU.

Just for fun… …Was she?

I would concur with the notion that being in a marital relationship with Eve is part of what makes Adam “like” God. And yet, what of priests and religious then, whose spouse is the Lord?



SK

before the fall adam and eve existed with God to the point that they did not pray to him. he was there with them. we have something missing now that only christ fills. Priests have nothing to do with adam and eve. The state adam and eve existed in is gone for ever lost to us. christ is now are only way home. Jesus bridges the gap. Priests are a people set apart. they have a communion of persons like nothing adam and eve ever thought of.

 

[down_under]

Thanks for everyone’s responses. I understand that celibacy was given by Christ, thus bestowing upon it respect and honor. And I get that the priest’s bride is the Church.

What I don’t get is the argument proposed by the Theology of the Body regarding celibacy “as a living witness to the union that awaits us in heaven.” Christopher West addresses this on his website: “In short, those who choose celibacy are “skipping” the sacrament in anticipation of the real thing”.

Adam already had “the real thing”. Yet he needed Eve. Why? If God’s plan from all eternity was to “marry” us, and it seems Adam was united to God, he was already fulfilled.

okay here is the disconnect. no big thing really but you need to try to think about this a little differently. adam was still a man born into this world. There was a heaven at this time and adam was not in it. Adam had many things we did not but he did not yet have “the real thing”. In fact the glaring fact is that he failed his test, and fell creating an infinite sin that men could never make right to God. Had he defended eve from the serpent (probably bodily in the end if not in the beginning) then God would have excepted his sacrifice or defended him mightily. But adam did not stop eve from eating the fruit as was his charge he fell. he was not in heaven he was in a place of testing. Just like we are only he did not have the predisposition to sin that we have. Which of course is what made his sin so bad.

 

[John_AH]

Eve was created so man could Love, more over he could give himself to. God wants us to know him through Love. If we are physically alone how can we come to really know him?

Thus he created Eve.

I truly feel Eve and the New Eve is by far greatest gifts to mankind. For through them we know Love, we know God.

God’s faithful servant,
John A. H.

I

 

[clmowry]

One of the underlying thoughts in this thread seems to be an unnecessary contrast between Celibacy and Marriage.

I do not believe that the Church teaches that one is better than the other is.

I do believe that Paul in Scripture, and the Church in general, teach that it is “better” for a Priest be celibate than married.

I do not believe that the Church teaches that it is “better” to be called the Priesthood than to be called to married life.

Some are called to the Priesthood. Some are called to Married life.

Both are good.

I see no indication that Adam was called to be a priest.

So remaining celibate before he was given a wife was good.

Living the married life once he was given a wife was also good.

Chuck

 

[SilentKnight]

down under:

before the fall adam and eve existed with God to the point that they did not pray to him. he was there with them. we have something missing now that only christ fills. Priests have nothing to do with adam and eve. The state adam and eve existed in is gone for ever lost to us. christ is now are only way home. Jesus bridges the gap. Priests are a people set apart. they have a communion of persons like nothing adam and eve ever thought of.

Now we’re headed in the right direction…



SK

 

[SilentKnight]

okay here is the disconnect. no big thing really but you need to try to think about this a little differently. adam was still a man born into this world. There was a heaven at this time and adam was not in it. Adam had many things we did not but he did not yet have “the real thing”. In fact the glaring fact is that he failed his test, and fell creating an infinite sin that men could never make right to God. Had he defended eve from the serpent (probably bodily in the end if not in the beginning) then God would have excepted his sacrifice or defended him mightily. But adam did not stop eve from eating the fruit as was his charge he fell. he was not in heaven he was in a place of testing. Just like we are only he did not have the predisposition to sin that we have. Which of course is what made his sin so bad.

Now we’re talking!!!

Bingo! Adam and Eve may have had “grace that sanctified”, but if they did, it was not in its “mature form” (for lack of a better expression). It took man essentially sacrificing himself in order for that grace to mature, or “go to the next level” (“Unless a grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies…”), which with Adam, obviously, didn’t happen. He chose to walk away from God instead.

With Jesus, it did.

Praised be Jesus Christ.

SK

 

[SilentKnight]

One of the underlying thoughts in this thread seems to be an unnecessary contrast between Celibacy and Marriage.

I do not believe that the Church teaches that one is better than the other is.

I do believe that Paul in Scripture, and the Church in general, teach that it is “better” for a Priest be celibate than married.

I do not believe that the Church teaches that it is “better” to be called the Priesthood than to be called to married life.

Jesus himself says it is (implicitly) in Matt 19:9-12. The Church concurs. Though, obviously, each needs to follow his own call. Consecrated celibate life is an objectively higher form of life than marriage is, but, subjectively, the best vocation for an individual is the one he is called to.

I see no indication that Adam was called to be a priest.

So remaining celibate before he was given a wife was good.

Living the married life once he was given a wife was also good.

Chuck

Obviously it was good in that God said it was. What PR has been asking, however, is, “Why is it good?”

Adam and Eve were in a state of “perfection” before the Fall. Right? Heaven is also “perfection”. In Heaven we will not be married or given in marriage. Not because marriage is not good, but because we will be in a state of perfection there and won’t need it. If this is so, and the Garden of Eden was also “perfection”, where was there room for marriage in the Garden???

The answer, I am convinced, lies in my posts near the top of the thread and Down Under’s posts immediately above.

Peace be with you,

SK

 

[PRmerger]

I got it!

Adam needed Eve and marriage because, while in paradise, he was still not in heaven and needed union with Eve to point to the One True Union with God in Heaven.

Priestly celibates are a living witness to the union that is expected in heaven. “Authentically lived, a celibate’s life proclaims that, as beautiful and wonderful as the union of the sexes is, there is a greater love, a greater union worth ‘selling everything’ for.” (Christopher West)

How’s that??

 

[down_under]

Eve was created so man could Love, more over he could give himself to. God wants us to know him through Love. If we are physically alone how can we come to really know him?

Thus he created Eve.

I truly feel Eve and the New Eve is by far greatest gifts to mankind. For through them we know Love, we know God.

God’s faithful servant,
John A. H.

I

well I truly feel that Jesus Christ was the greatest gift to mankind.

P.S. Jesus Christ was a non married celibate.

 

[John_AH]

I stand corrected.

I actually had “early gift of mankind” but it got lost in the translation.

God’s Faithful servant,
John H.

 

[SilentKnight]

I got it!

Adam needed Eve and marriage because, while in paradise, he was still not in heaven and needed union with Eve to point to the One True Union with God in Heaven.

Priestly celibates are a living witness to the union that is expected in heaven. “Authentically lived, a celibate’s life proclaims that, as beautiful and wonderful as the union of the sexes is, there is a greater love, a greater union worth ‘selling everything’ for.” (Christopher West)

How’s that??

Good!!

:extrahappy: :dancing: :extrahappy:

SK

 

[Claire_from_DE]

According to Christopher West’s understanding of Pope JPII’s Theology of the Body, priests indeed do “skip” marriage.

See: christopherwest.com/page.asp?ContentID=78

OK. But my point is they give up the one-to-one genital expression of sexual love in marriage so that they can extend their love to the whole people of God. This reflects the marriage of the Lamb where we are united to one another through being united to God.

As a single (not consecrated celibate) person, I think that priestly celibacy gives a witness to the person who is called or has fallen into the single state that he/she is of value and is also called to love God and neighbor and be fruitful.