Celibacy within marriage?

[Apryl]

However, I do not agree that the first year of marriage would be the hardest year to practice abstinence if the couple was virginal coming into the marriage.

This is a great point: ‘hardest yeart’.

I saw that post that suggested it would be difficult. I don’t know that the idea is that it’s hardest TO PRACTICE ABSTINENCE, but being abstinent is not easy, and the first year of marriage, just by virtue of being the first year of marriage, is difficult.

So, you are putting two points together, and then disagreeing with the combination, when you sound like you could accept and agree with the points individually.

 

[SaintMaker]

Hi,
NFP is not to be used as a substitute for birth control. If I were you I would postpone my marriage until you are ready to commit to the full married life. There must be grave motives for not being able to carry a baby and for using NFP (aka rhythm). Grave. In fact at that point I would then speak to a priest. Sweetie, we live in a world that wants to have all its ducks in a row before we do anything. However, in reality we must turn to Christ to get our ducks in a row. He so wants us to be childlike…

"Amen, I say to you, unless you be converted and become as little children, you shall not enter tinto the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

I wish I could put my arms around you and say “it will all be OK, just let go and Let God carry you through…” I hope all works out for you.

I need to go do some laundry, or I’d search more for you … but here is something to get you started: On The Question of Natural Family Planning.

and here is a cut/paste from part of that article, something to keep in mind:

** It is important to mention that Pope Pius XII placed a condition on the use of rhythm:

“Consequently to embrace the state of matrimony, to use continually the faculty proper to it, and in it alone, and on the other hand to withdraw always and deliberately, without a grave motive, from its primary duty, would be to sin against the very meaning of conjugal life” (A.A.S., 43 [1951] 845-846).**

Lastly, I would have a sit down with your parish priest, and your spouse to be. Because sometimes we seek answers in places that will support what we want, rather than going where we need to do find the truth.

 

[LJN21]

Hi,
NFP is not to be used as a substitute for birth control. If I were you I would postpone my marriage until you are ready to commit to the full married life. There must be grave motives for not being able to carry a baby and for using NFP (aka rhythm). Grave. In fact at that point I would then speak to a priest. Sweetie, we live in a world that wants to have all its ducks in a row before we do anything. However, in reality we must turn to Christ to get our ducks in a row. He so wants us to be childlike…

"Amen, I say to you, unless you be converted and become as little children, you shall not enter tinto the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 18:3

I wish I could put my arms around you and say “it will all be OK, just let go and Let God carry you through…” I hope all works out for you.

I need to go do some laundry, or I’d search more for you … but here is something to get you started: On The Question of Natural Family Planning.

and here is a cut/paste from part of that article, something to keep in mind:

** It is important to mention that Pope Pius XII placed a condition on the use of rhythm:

“Consequently to embrace the state of matrimony, to use continually the faculty proper to it, and in it alone, and on the other hand to withdraw always and deliberately, without a grave motive, from its primary duty, would be to sin against the very meaning of conjugal life” (A.A.S., 43 [1951] 845-846).**

Lastly, I would have a sit down with your parish priest, and your spouse to be. Because sometimes we seek answers in places that will support what we want, rather than going where we need to do find the truth.

While I agree with every word you said and feel like it is necessary to get the blessing of a priest before using NFP. I’ve heard of many occasion where the priest is just happy they won’t be using ABC he’ll give them the go ahead for darn near anything reasoning they want.

 

[Seatuck]

NPF is not aka rhythm. They are very different. Rhythm pretty much was limited to a 28 day cycle and calendar. NFP is based on bodily signs - mucous and/or temperature particular to the woman.

 

[SaintMaker]

While I agree with every word you said and feel like it is necessary to get the blessing of a priest before using NFP. I’ve heard of many occasion where the priest is just happy they won’t be using ABC he’ll give them the go ahead for darn near anything reasoning they want.

You know I should have prefaced by saying that she should have a novena or a week of prayer dedicated to Our Blessed Mother and ask Her to direct the priest. We must have faith in our priests. We MUST.

I just read… and here I digress… I am avoiding laundry duty… but I read the Life of St. Faustina, and there are some beautiful quotes and passages that tell us to listen to the priests, to seek their advice, that Jesus speaks to us through them. We MUST never give up on them. NEVER. It also states in that book that the world will be in peril when we no longer have religious (priests/nuns, etc.) … not an exact quote. Read the book it is wonderful.

I do know there are corrupt priests but with prayer, fasting and belief like a child, God will speak to our hearts through the priests. Even the not so good ones.

God Bless!

 

[SaintMaker]

NPF is not aka rhythm. They are very different. Rhythm pretty much was limited to a 28 day cycle and calendar. NFP is based on bodily signs - mucous and/or temperature particular to the woman.

oops… was that my problem! LOL
Seriously, I know they are different biologically but both are methods that the church approved for ‘grave’ reasons… that was my point. Read the Catholic Catechism… it is stated there as well.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Seatuck]

I have a good question. Is it okay to practice celibacy within marriage? Do you need a good reason within marriage?

My fiance and I are engaged and will be married next May. I have a dream to get my doctorate in psychology after I graduate with a Bachelor’s in December 2008.

I have explained to him that I am open to children and he has a similar mindset. We plan to practice NFP but I have said that throughout one year of the program it would be quite inconveinient to have a child, so we will have to be sure to do it perfectly. I also said that even if God was to bless us with a child in that one year we would figure something out and love the child all the same. : He has said that if it is that important to me maybe we should try a year of celibacy. I am concerned that this would be against Church teaching… but I know Saints have done it and didn’t Mary and Joseph do it? Where does the Church stand on this?

Mary and Joseph had a very different kind of marriage than the rest of us do.

I’d discuss this with your priest. Celibacy in marriage is usually done for religious reasons not to postpone pregnancy. Periodic abstinence is one thing , you are talking about a prolonged period of continence. This clearly should only be undertaken with a spiritual director. First , the marital act must be undertaken to make the marriage valid. Secondly , the use( don’t read this like a negative) of each other’s bodies in the marital act is part of what is given in marriage. It’s part of the gift of marriage and is an essential part.
My personal opinion is wait until you are ready to handle being a wife and mother before undertaking on the lifelong vow of service that is the sacrament of marriage. Nothing wrong with having dreams of education. Just keep it in the proper perspective with something as important as a Sacrament.

 

[Seatuck]

oops… was that my problem! LOL
Seriously, I know they are different biologically but both are methods that the church approved for ‘grave’ reasons… that was my point. Read the Catholic Catechism… it is stated there as well.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

The church doesn’t sponsor classes that teach rhythm, though. That is the old term for the method used in the 50’s - 70’s.

In the CCC under 2370 it states-

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

Thus the innate LANGUAGE that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory LANGUAGE, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160No mention of the old calendar method here. Perhaps it is somewhere else but I don’t see it. Rhythm of the cycle does not mean old school calendar method. It means the bodies natural cycle.

Nothing to apologize for. I’m just tired of all the jokes about the rhythm method. The church doesn’t really recommend that anymore.

 

[Gamera]

I have a good question. Is it okay to practice celibacy within marriage? Do you need a good reason within marriage?

My fiance and I are engaged and will be married next May. I have a dream to get my doctorate in psychology after I graduate with a Bachelor’s in December 2008.

I have explained to him that I am open to children and he has a similar mindset. We plan to practice NFP but I have said that throughout one year of the program it would be quite inconveinient to have a child, so we will have to be sure to do it perfectly. I also said that even if God was to bless us with a child in that one year we would figure something out and love the child all the same. : He has said that if it is that important to me maybe we should try a year of celibacy. I am concerned that this would be against Church teaching… but I know Saints have done it and didn’t Mary and Joseph do it? Where does the Church stand on this?

I don’t see how long-term abstinence is consistent with Catholic marriage (and for the record, Mary and Joseph didn’t have a Catholic marriage because Jesus didn’t institute marriage as a Christian sacrament until 30 years later). The Catechism of the Catholic Church says that marriage is based on the parties’ will to give themselves to each other (CCC 1661).

But if for some reason it turns out I’m wrong … then for the love of Mike, DON’T TELL MY WIFE.

 

[Rach620]

I also do not understand the point of getting married next May if you foresee a year of abstinence. Honestly, it just seems like much more of a challenge than anything. The physical (not just sexual–I mean the physical reality of living with and being with one another), emotional and spiritual intimacy which are the fruits of marriage should grow along with sexual intimacy during that first year of marriage. Something would just be ‘off’ if you couldn’t completely give of yourself to your spouse out of paranoia that you’ll become pregnant.

I’m not sure I know of any priest who would witness the sacrament if he knew that the couple was planning to do such a thing. It’s a sign that you’re not ready to marry. One of the marriage vows is to lovingly accept any children as gifts from God. Ask yourselves if you could make that vow in good faith, with the intention of withholding yourselves from each other in order to prevent potentially receiving God’s gifts for an entire year.

My fiance and I will get our undergrad degrees in December 2008 as well. When we got engaged this past January, we kicked our discernment into high gear and really tried to figure out what kind of marriage timeline God was calling us to. It never entered our minds to marry and abstain for a year, because that’s not how we understand marriage.

What we did realistically recognize, though, was that *for us *being married undergraduates was basically impossible. It would be just too incredibly hard, and almost impossible, for us to support ourselves and whatever children God might bless us with at the very beginning of our marriage. So we’re marrying in April 2009–as I start graduate school, and he’s beginning his first job. From that point on, we’ll discern on a month-to-month basis what God might be calling us to as far as leniency with NFP goes. If I get pregnant, I guess it will just mean that I need a break from my PhD program, and that perhaps my own vocation is changing!

Check out NFP, and trust God. I can’t say that enough! He has a plan for your marriage, so just turn yourselves over to His will!

I feel like we’re in similar situations–feel free to pm me.

 

[Respect_GOD]

Hello again,

One thing that I did not say in the post is that the year of abstinence would be about a year after we get married. I am planning on beginning grad school in September of 2009 so the first year of marriage would be just fine, after that we will have to see. One poster discussed in her post that abstaining for a year is not within your definition of marriage, and I agree. That is why I posted. We have taken NFP classes and we originally planned on using this. After looking at it again and praying about it, for now we are looking at just having marital relations in the third phase of cycles. I have also been considering a more flexible (and expensive) grad school for a number of reasons. We will continue to pray. I thank you all for your advice.