Celibate gay couple and civil marriage

[Monica59]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.
My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?
Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

 

[theCrow]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.
My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?
Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

What a great troll thread
Assuming you are being serious though, it’s the understatement of the year that you wrote “I apologize if this is not the right place to post this.” If you are in a celibate relationship, you are in a FRIENDSHIP and that’s totally fine. However, when asking about would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, most here will tell you the church will never recognize a SSM in the first place, and their answer would be YES it’s wrong, and an abomination unto God, a sin if you act on your SSA. Thus the church is never going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Please ignore the other response.

You are welcome in the Church, and I don’t see any reason (at least not right off) why you and your friend can’t live together. Marriage is another thing altogether, since marriage is a sacramental reality focused on the sexual complementarity of men and women. Marriage is not what society is now calling “marriage”.

Please read: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html

Peace,
Prodigal

 

[markomalley]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.
My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?
Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

On a civil basis, I would think that any arrangements could be handled as contracts. For example, powers of attorney financial and medical purposes.

As far as handling annulments of same as civil unions (as society calls them, "gay marriages), since the Church does not even recognize them as having even the remotest possibility of being valid, then I would not see why the Church would need to annul such an arrangement any more than the Church would need to annul an unmarried couple living together.

of course the above assumes that was seeking an annulment in preparation for either receiving the sacrament of matrimony or taking vows for consecrated life.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.
My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?
Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

It’d be morally wrong to get a civil marriage because that is technically endorsing gay marriage. If it were called a civil union or domestic partnership and had exactly the same legal stuff attached it’d be fine. Seems crazy I know, but that is just how it is.

There is no need for the Church to “handle annulments of gay civil marriages” as the Church doesn’t recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex.

What a great troll thread
Assuming you are being serious though, it’s the understatement of the year that you wrote “I apologize if this is not the right place to post this.” If you are in a celibate relationship, you are in a FRIENDSHIP and that’s totally fine. However, when asking about would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, most here will tell you the church will never recognize a SSM in the first place, and their answer would be YES it’s wrong, and an abomination unto God, a sin if you act on your SSA. Thus the church is never going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages.

There’s no need to be so hostile.

On a civil basis, I would think that any arrangements could be handled as contracts. For example, powers of attorney financial and medical purposes.

As far as handling annulments of same as civil unions (as society calls them, "gay marriages), since the Church does not even recognize them as having even the remotest possibility of being valid, then I would not see why the Church would need to annul such an arrangement any more than the Church would need to annul an unmarried couple living together.

of course the above assumes that was seeking an annulment in preparation for either receiving the sacrament of matrimony or taking vows for consecrated life.

Here’s the thing, getting a lawyer to draft that is expensive and not only is “gay affluence” a myth, they are far more likely to be poor than the general US population

 

[markomalley]

Here’s the thing, getting a lawyer to draft that is expensive and not only is “gay affluence” a myth, they are far more likely to be poor than the general US population

As far as “they are far more likely to be poor…”

Experian would not agree.

Regardless, relative median family incomes doesn’t really matter too much if the family in question is personally poor.

Frankly, I would refer the OP to Nolo.com. There is very inexpensive software to assist with the development of the needed forms available through that site. There are also a number of forms that are absolutely free.

Then all that needs to be done is to get the form notarized (about $3 per document) and, in the case of a will, register it with the local government.

It can pretty easily be done for not-that-much money.

 

[1ke]

My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage,

It is not possible for two people of the same sex to marry each other. Simulating such through a “civil marriage” would be morally wrong and incompatible with living a Catholic life.

or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?

No, it is not in any way similar.

Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

The Church is not going to “handle” them in any way. There is nothing to “do”.

There is no such thing as a same sex marriage. There is no such thing as a same sex divorce. The Church recognizes neither.

A decree of nullity is for actual putative marriages.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

As far as “they are far more likely to be poor…”

Experian would not agree.

Regardless, relative median family incomes doesn’t really matter too much if the family in question is personally poor.

Frankly, I would refer the OP to Nolo.com. There is very inexpensive software to assist with the development of the needed forms available through that site. There are also a number of forms that are absolutely free.

Then all that needs to be done is to get the form notarized (about $3 per document) and, in the case of a will, register it with the local government.

It can pretty easily be done for not-that-much money.

Experian’s data set is skewed towards rich LGBT people. See this article.

 

[Corki]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.

Are you “in a relationship” or are you close friends living together? Morally, these are very different situations, regardless of the chastity involved.

My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?

A civilly married couple who is given permission to live together “as brother and sister” is a very specific accommodation for the protection of the children while the couple seeks to regularize their marriage situation. This is not really similar at all to your situation. It would be wrong to pursue a civil “marriage” as has been noted before - it is a grave sin to attempt that which is rightly Sacramental.

Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages

There cannot be any Church involvement in same sex marriages. All people seeking to get married in the Church must show that they are legally free to marry (at least in the US). A person who had a previous civil marriage would have to show proof of its dissolution before he/she could start the process of marriage preparation.

 

[Monica59]

Except for that first reply, you have all been kind and helpful. Thank you. BTW, I clean houses for a living and my partner is a retired postal worker. We are definitely not wealthy. Most SSA females don’t have a lot of money because women on the whole don’t make as much as men gay or straight.

 

[johnnyt3000]

It’d be morally wrong to get a civil marriage because that is technically endorsing gay marriage. If it were called a civil union or domestic partnership and had exactly the same legal stuff attached it’d be fine. Seems crazy I know, but that is just how it is.

There is no need for the Church to “handle annulments of gay civil marriages” as the Church doesn’t recognize a marriage between two people of the same sex.

There’s no need to be so hostile.

Here’s the thing, getting a lawyer to draft that is expensive and not only is “gay affluence” a myth, they are far more likely to be poor than the general US population

theCrow was not being hostile, but being truthfull, friendship is fine, but living together and having any type of civil union that condones SSA would be wrong. The Church does not recegnize invalid marraiges, gay unions being among the invalid, which makes it wrong for them to live together.

 

[johnnyt3000]

Except for that first reply, you have all been kind and helpful. Thank you. BTW, I clean houses for a living and my partner is a retired postal worker. We are definitely not wealthy. Most SSA females don’t have a lot of money because women on the whole don’t make as much as men gay or straight.

Because the first told you what you didn’t want to hear. God bless

 

[johnnyt3000]

Being friends is fine, living together with government benefits etc., is not.

 

[jg533]

Hi, I just want to say I wish you the best with whatever decision your heart guides both of you. I am a gay male who has been living in a same sex relationship for nearly 25 years. I was born and raised Catholic, I attend Mass Daily, Sunday, Holy Days, receive Communion, go to Confession, Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, Stations of the Cross, Member of the K of C, and I love the Catholic Church. I know it’s not my call to determine what is right and not right by the Church, but I don’t lose sleep over it, and hope you don’t either. I personally wouldn’t feel right if I had a civil marriage but that’s just me if you are Happy, Love God, Love Church, you will be loved back. Wish you the best, God Bless!

 

[Prodigal_Son]

theCrow was not being hostile, but being truthfull, friendship is fine, but living together and having any type of civil union that condones SSA would be wrong. The Church does not recegnize invalid marraiges, gay unions being among the invalid, which makes it wrong for them to live together.

Accusing someone of being a troll, and then patronizing them for their lack of knowledge of Catholic moral teaching, seems pretty hostile to me.

 

[Listener]

I disagree with the part that says the Church would totally ignore a same-sex marriage because there is no such thing.

Suppose two women were in a civil same-sex marriage. One of them meets her dream man and decides she is not gay after all. She wants to get married in the Catholic Church.

Although the Church would not annul such a marriage, I’m sure this couple would have to prove to the Church that they got a divorce.

If the two women did not get a divorce and one of them married a man in the Catholic Church, the State would consider them guilty of bigamy.

I’m pretty sure that the Church would not want that to happen, since the Church always complies with State laws.

 

[Rau]

Hi everyone. I’m looking for advice. I apologize if this is not the right place to post this. I am totally new here. I am an SSA woman who lives in a totally celibate relationship with another woman. We are older and there is no temptation.
My question is since we have no sexual intimacy at all, would it be wrong to get a civil marriage, or would it be like a straight couple living “as brother and sister” while they wait on annulments?
Also, I am curious how the church is going to handle annulments of gay civil marriages. Would that need to be done just like in heterosexual marriages?

What would be your objective in seeking civil marriage?

 

[Corki]

I disagree with the part that says the Church would totally ignore a same-sex marriage because there is no such thing.

Suppose two women were in a civil same-sex marriage. One of them meets her dream man and decides she is not gay after all. She wants to get married in the Catholic Church.

Although the Church would not annul such a marriage, I’m sure this couple would have to prove to the Church that they got a divorce.

If the two women did not get a divorce and one of them married a man in the Catholic Church, the State would consider them guilty of bigamy.

I’m pretty sure that the Church would not want that to happen, since the Church always complies with State laws.

This is what I referred to earlier. The Church is not, however, investigating the “marriage” as she does with an annulment procedure. The individuals always have to show proof they are legally free to marry and that would still apply.

 

[signit]

Experian’s data set is skewed towards rich LGBT people. See this article.

Thanks for posting this article.

From the article:

“The downside,” says Gates, “is that those marketing studies looked at the LGBT community as a consumer market, which is a very different perspective compared with how a social science researcher who does poverty research would look at those questions.”

Gates and others social scientists believe that public perception of LGBT people’s economic standing comes from these kinds of marketing studies and campaigns. Finding less biased research is more difficult. Economic breakdowns by racial and ethnic demographics are widely documented through census data, but for sexual minorities, this kind of information is almost non-existent. Complicating matters more, the census does not ask directly what a person’s sexual orientation is, though researchers can get some notion of that number indirectly: Instead, the census records people who report being in a same-sex-partnered household.

 

[djames99]

Why do you resign yourself to remain a ‘SSA’ woman?

For each of us we need to access the conditions around us to ensure we are not in an environment, that if circumstances would change, find us in an occasion for sin.

If satan should return to you and tempted you later, how would your choice to live this way now help you to fend off the temptation?

It is my opinion you are still submitting to a temptation, your only at phase 1 of a grander scheme that will certainly have no benefit to you when it plays out to completion.