Cemetery Woes

[BayCityRickL]

I run into various problems with the Church, and they really represent moral dilemmas to me.

My pastor preaches things that contradict the Catechism. I think he simply represents a tip of an iceberg of such problems in our diocese. That is one of several related reasons I do not attend church on Sunday.

My current woe is an unexpected one. I went looking for some relatives that died and were buried 35+ years ago. It turns out the cemetery records are in shambles.

They do not have a record of my grand-aunt’s burial in what is supposed to be her husband’s burial plot.

And, then, they can’t tell me accurately where my grand-uncle is buried.

What really gets me is that they won’t let me put a gravestone to indicate where my grand-aunt is buried.

Management of cemeteries is a form of stewardship, and here, it is lacking miserably at least in this respect. My brain is aching and it won’t stop.

Go ahead, look up the Canon Laws on burials and cemeteries. I don’t think the local managers even know that these “laws” exist.

 

[PiusXIII]

BayCityRickL:

I run into various problems with the Church, and they really represent moral dilemmas to me.

My pastor preaches things that contradict the Catechism. I think he simply represents a tip of an iceberg of such problems in our diocese. That is one of several related reasons I do not attend church on Sunday.

My current woe is an unexpected one. I went looking for some relatives that died and were buried 35+ years ago. It turns out the cemetery records are in shambles.

They do not have a record of my grand-aunt’s burial in what is supposed to be her husband’s burial plot.

And, then, they can’t tell me accurately where my grand-uncle is buried.

What really gets me is that they won’t let me put a gravestone to indicate where my grand-aunt is buried.

Management of cemeteries is a form of stewardship, and here, it is lacking miserably at least in this respect. My brain is aching and it won’t stop.

Go ahead, look up the Canon Laws on burials and cemeteries. I don’t think the local managers even know that these “laws” exist.

As a genealogy buff I can tell you that not only are the cemetery records a shambles—but the Catholic church records are often a shambles. And to make it worse—the churches in Bay City (particularly St. Stans) are notorious for being rude and unhelpful to genealogists.

 

[puzzleannie]

is the cemetery owned and operated by the parish or diocese, or it is a private concern. Please find out before you ascribe problems to deliberate Church mismanagement.
Many of the small, old cemeteries in this area are family owned, and it is always considered the family’s responsibility to keep up the gravesite.

If your own pastor is not faithful in preaching and liturgy, I am sure you can find another parish to attend. This does not remove your Sunday Mass obligation. If there is a Mass with valid Eucharist that you can get to you are obliged to attend, no matter what you don’t like about the priest, the parish, or the customs there. That is your excuse, not your real reason for not attending Mass.

As far as accomodating geneologists, canon law does not allow anyone except the pastor to have access to sacramental records. the particular laws in our diocese specifically warn against allowing geneologists access to the sacramental records of the parish. Most diocese have an agreement with a university library or historical society to gain help microfilming sacramental recrods, in return for allowing the research library to keep a copy of the microfilm. In accordance with standard archival practice, these are not available to the public until the persons they pertain to are dead.

Sacramental recrod belong to the parish and duplicate records must be microfilmed or otherwise archived in the diocese. If a geneologist wishes a baptismal or other sacramental record he goes through the same procedure anyone else does: request it, giving all the pertinent information, and pay a nominal processing fee. Sacramental records of living persons may not be released to third parties without their permission.

What I will allow is that parish sacramental records, which are supposed to be the direct responsibility of the pastor, are often delegated to untrained staff, and in many places they are ill-kept, which is in violation of canon law. If you have personal knowledge of such a situation in your parish it should be reported in writing with corroborating detail to the chancery immediately.

 

[BayCityRickL]

Dear Puzzle A.,

The cemetery in question was a parish cemetery which the diocese of Saginaw took over in 1995.

Heresy refers to selecting. The heresies in this diocese are numerous, in my view. Even those most credited with Bible knowledge are far afield of the truth. I simply don’t trust the majority of parishes. Why should I get behind and support heretics?

 

[PiusXIII]

puzzleannie:

As far as accomodating geneologists, canon law does not allow anyone except the pastor to have access to sacramental records. the particular laws in our diocese specifically warn against allowing geneologists access to the sacramental records of the parish. Most diocese have an agreement with a university library or historical society to gain help microfilming sacramental recrods, in return for allowing the research library to keep a copy of the microfilm. In accordance with standard archival practice, these are not available to the public until the persons they pertain to are dead.

Thank you. It is good to have an expert on canon law as it relates to genealogy and church record keeping.

Also, Puzzleannie, I don’t know ANY genealogists who are interested in church records to find out information on the LIVING.

Often it is the case that a civil record—like a death record (at the county or local level) was not filed at all (for example—a death record may not have been filed due to negligence on the part of the attending doctor—or sometimes because there was no doctor attending the deceased…often the deceased never had a stone placed on their grave at all) and so the only place to find a record of death and/or burial is at the church.

What has been found at many parishes in this diocese is that the records were often not preserved well—and that a genealogist’s humble request (along with the nominal fee you mentioned) get ignored by church staff. Phone calls get unreturned by church staff. Oh, they cash the check alright…but they don’t return the courtesy of answering your request.

Interestingly I (and many others in this area) have only had this problem with Catholic churches. It seems all of the Protestants churches in the area are much more helpful.

It is a shame because there are some relations who seem to have no civil death record at all—if I could obtain the church burial record, I could have a mass said for the person.

And as far as Bay City Rick’s statement about heresies—I certainly do see the point. The heresies are widespread in this diocese. Personally though, I feel that I have found a church where the Holy Spirit is at work —and I am confident that the heresies will be overcome with time, work and prayer.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

PiusXIII - RE It is a shame because there are some relations who seem to have no civil death record at all—if I could obtain the church burial record, I could have a mass said for the person. Have a mass said anyway. They will benefit whether they are alive or dead.