Challenges of the Cloistered Life

[catharina]

Interesting.
Think about this. Unless you are as hard as a diamond which is impervious to erosion you eventually will be reduced to grit if in the tumbler for too long. This is my original point. The long haul is likely to reduce one to mush. Or using your analogy - grit.
Rock tumblers are made to be used for set periods of time called steps. If the steps are followed correctly a beautiful polished stone is produced. If the steps are not followed then the rocks are reduced to sand or grit.
A polished stone is meant to be removed from the tumbler and appreciated. If it remains inside then it never has a chance to be.

It’s at least as likely that those in contemplative life will be turned into dust; at that point, no doubt, they are quite ready for heaven. (Ashes to ahses and dust to dust.) I do find it difficult to take a serious attitude to what might be some ‘intrinsic harm’ caused by cloistered living. I wonder why you are bothered by such a thought. You do understand that men/women who are not able to make such a self-sacrificial commitment can be (and have been) asked to leave community life - just as they are free to choose to leave such a life? I hope so.

They are not imprisoned.

How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. ~ Anne Frank ~

 

[Beautiful]

It’s at least as likely that those in contemplative life will be turned into dust; at that point, no doubt, they are quite ready for heaven. (Ashes to ahses and dust to dust.) I do find it difficult to take a serious attitude to what might be some ‘intrinsic harm’ caused by cloistered living. I wonder why you are bothered by such a thought. You do understand that men/women who are not able to make such a self-sacrificial commitment can be (and have been) asked to leave community life - just as they are free to choose to leave such a life? I hope so.

They are not imprisoned.

By the sweat of your face shall you get bread to eat, Until you return to the ground, from which you were taken; For you are dirt, and to dirt you shall return. Genesis 3:19

This is true for everyone. We all return to ashes - dirt - dust.

I was just pointing out that the rock tumbler analogy doesn’t quite fit or - maybe it does -

And yea, I know they are not imprisoned. I didn’t question that.

 

[catharina]

I returned to your original post in an attempt to understand your frame of reference for questioning the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community. It seems to me that those “in the world” - from corporate executives to the guy struggling to buy food - might be far more removed from the essential of absolute focus on God that is bread-and-butter for all contemplatives. Indeed, that focus is to be the focus for all of us.

 

[Beautiful]

I returned to your original post in an attempt to understand your frame of reference for questioning the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community.

“My frame of reference for questioning the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community?”
No.
I questioned the results of living 40-50-60 years in a cloisted community. Someone mentioned later in this thread that an extraordinary spiritual advisor could be appointed in the event that a superior failed to meet the spiritual needs in an individual struggling with complacency or stagnation.

It seems to me that those “in the world” - from corporate executives to the guy struggling to buy food - might be far more removed from the essential of absolute focus on God that is bread-and-butter for all contemplatives. Indeed, that focus is to be the focus for all of us.

It is this long haul and focus that disturbs me. The problem is that we are still - fully human/not divine - cloistered or not. Sometimes I think that cloistered life is like putting a basket over the light. Sure the cloistered’s focus is suppose to be on God but where is the light? Isn’t it hidden?

Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father. Matthew 5:15-16

It is with our light and saltiness that we help each other. What good is salt or light if left in a box? Does not the light die out? Does not the salt remain untasted?

 

[catharina]

“My frame of reference for questioning the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community?”
No.
I questioned the results of living 40-50-60 years in a cloisted community. Someone mentioned later in this thread that an extraordinary spiritual advisor could be appointed in the event that a superior failed to meet the spiritual needs in an individual struggling with complacency or stagnation.

It is this long haul and focus that disturbs me. The problem is that we are still - fully human/not divine - cloistered or not. Sometimes I think that cloistered life is like putting a basket over the light. Sure the cloistered’s focus is suppose to be on God but where is the light? Isn’t it hidden?

Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house.
Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father. Matthew 5:15-16

It is with our light and saltiness that we help each other. What good is salt or light if left in a box? Does not the light die out? Does not the salt remain untasted?

How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world. ~ Anne Frank ~

It is my unwavering belief that those who live a faithfilled cloistered life allow their gracious light to shine upon all of us through the unfailing actions of the Mystical Body of Christ. I hate to imagine what shape the Church might be in, if such souls did not give their very being to a life given completely to God. I’ve no doubt that their prayers and daily sacrifices make holy the Church to a degree that we simply can’t imagine. Do some fail in their attempts? Perhaps. Should therefore no one make the attempt or should some dictum pull the plug on their cloistered consecration after 25 or 30 or 40 years? I believe that would be an action contrary to God’s will and work since the life of the cloister has been with us for nearly as long as the Church has existed. Jesus, in living His public life, did take time away now and again. We’re told of at least one sojourn in the desert. Not everyone is called to a public life. Contemplatives live lives of contemplation at a sacred remove from the rest of us. They bless us with their lives.

You’ve said: *"Originally Posted by Beautiful
“My frame of reference for questioning the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community?”
No.
I questioned the results of living 40-50-60 years in a cloisted community. Someone mentioned later in this thread that an extraordinary spiritual advisor could be appointed in the event that a superior failed to meet the spiritual needs in an individual struggling with complacency or stagnation.

It is this long haul and focus that disturbs me. …"*

That notion is the one I identified as being a question regarding the goodness (or utility) of contemplative life lived in community. It is the long haul that is sanctifying.

Would you think the same about marriage? ‘Thirty years is too much for any couple; let each find a new partner or live as a single person lest they stagnate.’ The purpose of lifelong contemplation iin cloister is (in part) that it is lifelong, the total sacrifice of one’s entire adult life.

 

[Beautiful]

Would you think the same about marriage? ‘Thirty years is too much for any couple; let each find a new partner or live as a single person lest they stagnate.’ The purpose of lifelong contemplation iin cloister is (in part) that it is lifelong, the total sacrifice of one’s entire adult life.

good analogy

 

[johnnydigit]

i think you or whoever you have in mind should just do a “Come and See” weekend visit already. have faith, they’ve been doing this for thousands of years already.

monasteries are like slices of heaven and are testaments to the kingdom for us. the world is more like purgatory, or dare i say it, hell, with its lack of God. with that said, there’s not much you can get in the world that is lacking in community, or that you would find in community that you don’t find in the world.

so i guess what we need, it has. what we don’t need, the world has. what it has that we don’t need, the world has more of - and while both try to get rid of it, it has a better chance of success than the world.

 

[Beautiful]

What counts is to place Jesus Christ at the center of our lives, so that our identity is marked essentially by the encounter, by communion with Christ and with his Word. In his light every other value is recovered and purified from possible dross.

Pope Benedict XVI The Apostles and Their Coworkers published by Our Sunday Visitor

I had to look up the meaning of ‘dross’
m-w.com/dictionary/dross
You choose the meaning.

I believe that all are called to place Jesus Christ at the center but some are called to do this in the way of monastic life - just as some are called to other religious orders, marriage or single life.

 

[johnnydigit]

fyi in the Catechism starting with CCC 914 on religious life scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p4.htm

THE CONTEMPLATIVE DIMENSION OF RELIGIOUS LIFE
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccscrlife/documents/rc_con_ccscrlife_doc_12081980_the-contemplative-dimension-of-religious-life_en.html

perhaps with a deeper understanding of religious life, we might understand the cloistered life more, and be able to better understand how the topic of this thread relates to it. of course nothing beats experience, so go visit one already!

 

[BarbaraTherese]

fyi in the Catechism starting with CCC 914 on religious life scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p4.htm

THE CONTEMPLATIVE DIMENSION OF RELIGIOUS LIFE
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccscrlife/documents/rc_con_ccscrlife_doc_12081980_the-contemplative-dimension-of-religious-life_en.html

perhaps with a deeper understanding of religious life, we might understand the cloistered life more, and be able to better understand how the topic of this thread relates to it. of course nothing beats experience, so go visit one already!

… …thank you for the links…

 

[Beautiful]

THE CONTEMPLATIVE DIMENSION OF RELIGIOUS LIFE
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccscrlife/documents/rc_con_ccscrlife_doc_12081980_the-contemplative-dimension-of-religious-life_en.html

perhaps with a deeper understanding of religious life, we might understand the cloistered life more,

True - there must be reasons why cloisters have been around for a couple thousand years.
I’ve bookmarked the link you sent. As soon as I have a chance I’ll sit down and read it slowly and prayfully.

 

[mangy_dog]

Thanks to all for understanding and replying. :byzsoc:

The Body of Christ requires all sorts. If everybody was a foot or a hand…then we would only require a shoe or a glove. But I digress.

There is no “downside” to a cloiestered life. These dedicated people are needed and have a mission. Just because we can’t think of ourselves as cloistered doesn’t mean that there is something wrong about this calling.

I thank you Father, thru your Son Jesus Christ for these, your children, dedicated to a life of prayer and contemplation. In the stillness and the quiet…you are there Lord. May their prayers and supplications ascend to your throne, oh God, as fragrant incense and pleasing to you. Amen.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[Beautiful]

There is no “downside” to a cloiestered life. These dedicated people are needed and have a mission. Just because we can’t think of ourselves as cloistered doesn’t mean that there is something wrong about this calling.

Downside: 2 : a negative aspect

Doesn’t every vocation have challenges and weak spots in which negativity can easily slide in? Cloistered or not we are all humans. When we’ve died and gone to heaven we can expect perfection - no downsides. Cloisters are not heaven - yet - not even after 2,000 years.
I might have titled the thread - The Challenges of Cloistered Life.
What do you think?

Your prayer is a nice one

 

[mangy_dog]

Downside: 2 : a negative aspect

Doesn’t every vocation have challenges and weak spots in which negativity can easily slide in? Cloistered or not we are all humans. When we’ve died and gone to heaven we can expect perfection - no downsides. Cloisters are not heaven - yet - not even after 2,000 years.
I might have titled the thread - The Challenges of Cloistered Life.
What do you think?

Your prayer is a nice one

Challenges! yes! That probably would also attract potential candidates that might be recieving the calling to a life of prayer and contemplation in a cloistered community, as well as outline these very challenges that would otherwise dispell mis-conceptions about their mission in God’s greater plan.
By the way,…Thomas Merton happens to be my favourite author, especially Seeds of Contemplation. I must’ve read it several times to date and alway find it refreshing.

 

[Cloisters]

Hello, ‘Beautiful,’ this is ‘Cloisters’ speaking.

Please visit my website to gain a further understanding of the enclosed life: cloisters.tripod.com/

Souls who have been honed in holiness by 60 years of confessing their faults to each other and constantly experiencing ‘spiritual nudity’ before God are some of the sweetest people you’d ever want to meet. The only things keeping them from enjoying life the way they would want to is infirmity, and even that is joyful because they know they can convert sinners with it.

As St. Teresa of Avila, the reformer of the Carmelites, said, the cloister wall is a sign of the nuns’ committment to the world, not escapism.

Canon Law and the papal documents on the cloistered life mandate that the superior provide for not only spiritual direction and growth, but other subjects as well, as long as they are not contrary to the enclosed life. Even the strict Carthusians can read about hang-gliding if they wish.

The contemplative life is God and the soul–the building is irrelevant. What you’re describing in your first post is a community that is simply playing monastery, where the spirit of the founder has been lost. I honestly don’t know of any communities like that. I’ve been in this business for nearly 20 years, and the only “boredom” or discouragement I’ve seen is from those cloisters who experienced “come and go” vocations. Those who have been working with me have been blessed with young (and older) blood, and are being transformed.

Part of spiritually guiding older religious who have many infirmities is bringing their attention back to their Beloved who hangs from the other side of the cross from them. Teaching them that short prayers, like what the Little Flower did on her bed of infirmity, and keeping the eyes of their souls on God is what’s important. She was asked how she prayed in such a condition, and she said, “I don’t pray–I love Him.”

There are a couple of articles I’m working on presently which describe my own experiences within the cloister and in the extern quarters. Inside the enclosure is like finding the perfect spot for a night of star-gazing. God is there. He usually gives novitiate sisters a good dose of the “dark night of the soul,” but that’s to be expected. He wants total obedience to superiors, and total dependency on Him.

HTH.

Blessings,
Cloisters

 

[Beautiful]

THE CONTEMPLATIVE DIMENSION OF RELIGIOUS LIFE
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccscrlife/documents/rc_con_ccscrlife_doc_12081980_the-contemplative-dimension-of-religious-life_en.html

Honestly - I did not read the whole document but went straight to the part about Community Animation. This part answers my orginal questions.

C. Community animation

1. The religious community. – The religious community is itself a theological reality, an object of contemplation. As “a family united in the Lord’s name” (PC 15; cf. Mt 18:20), it is of its nature the place where the experience of God should be able in a special way to come to fullness and be communicated to others.

Mutual fraternal acceptance helps “to create an atmosphere favorable to the spiritual progress of each one” (ET 39).

For this very reason, religious need a “place for prayer” in their own houses, a place where the daily search for an encounter with God, the source of unity in charity, finds constant reminders and support. The real presence of the Lord Jesus in the Eucharist, devoutly reserved and adored, will be the living sign of that communion which is daily built up in charity.

1. The superior of the community. – According to the “grace of unity” proper to every institute (cf. PC 8), the superior of the community exercises the dual role of spiritual and pastoral animator (MR 13).

Those called to the ministry of authority should themselves understand and then help others understand that in communities of consecrated persons, the spirit of service towards all the members is an expression of the love with which God loves them (PC 14).

This service of unifying animation demands, then, that superiors not be strangers to or indifferent to pastoral needs; neither should they be absorbed merely in administrative duties. Rather they should feel and in fact be accepted primarily as guides for the spiritual and pastoral growth of each individual and of the whole community.

 

[Beautiful]

Please visit my website to gain a further understanding of the enclosed life: cloisters.tripod.com/

Souls who have been honed in holiness by 60 years of confessing their faults to each other and constantly experiencing ‘spiritual nudity’ before God are some of the sweetest people you’d ever want to meet. The only things keeping them from enjoying life the way they would want to is infirmity, and even that is joyful because they know they can convert sinners with it.

Blessings,
Cloisters

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ll keep your website and check it for the upcoming articles about your experiences in cloistered life.

‘Spiritual Nudity’ I’d like to know more about that. I’m guessing it is a bit like a child growing up at home. At home your parents and siblings love you and see you everyday and hopefully care the most about your safety and well-being. Spiritual nudity is the open loving, giving and receiving we like to associate with loving families?

 

[Cloisters]

Thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ll keep your website and check it for the upcoming articles about your experiences in cloistered life.

‘Spiritual Nudity’ I’d like to know more about that. I’m guessing it is a bit like a child growing up at home. At home your parents and siblings love you and see you everyday and hopefully care the most about your safety and well-being. Spiritual nudity is the open loving, giving and receiving we like to associate with loving families?

‘Spiritual nudity’ is being faced with your faults because you’re encountering the perfect God. You can’t go get a beer and forget about your imperfections, either, you’ve got to stay and ‘face the music.’

This is one thing that vocation literature asks of discerners: whether or not they’re open to formation, which means allowing someone to point out your faults so you can change and become more refined and perfect.

Blessings,
Cloisters