Challenging Augustine with ante-Nicean Fathers

[spauline]

A totally knowledgeable Catholic friend told me that Irenaus is probably better than Augustine because Augustine was more dualistic (hence his preference of the wheat and tares), whereas Irenaus is positive, God draws greater good from evil, rather than evil and good mature together in a field.

hence, why would Augustine understand the apocalypse better than men who were immediately post-Apostolic?

For whereas Augustine prefers the Wheat and Tares when looking at Church history, most ECFs prior to him look at history through the lens of the days of creation and the beast.

Hence, the days of creation are not really about the creation, but rather the REcreation of the world, that is, the redemption of man.

Hence, just as the world was made in seven days, so God shall redeem humanity in seven (now, with Christ, eight) ages. Each age begins with darkness and ends with light.

A modern Catholic priest, Father Ianuzzi, suggests that the ECFs may not have been chiliasts after all but adhered to a view that is reconcilabe with modern mystics, who prophecy a glorious age of peace, even a sabbath like rest, to follow an intermediate apostasy and tribulation.

IOW, ECFs who have been accused of being chiliasts, may have understood their own words to be partially allegorical, so that the presumed literal reign of Christ on earth is figure of speech, a period of glorious spiritual prosperity that occurs toward the end of the world after an intermediate apostasy, that is followed by the final darkness, Antichrist and Second Coming.

For has salvation history folllowed a maturing field model, or has it rather been first darkness and then light, and then darkness and then light, etc.?

Hence, today, we are in the darkness of the seventh day, and await the rising of the sun, that shall bring a sabbath like rest in this old creation, the age of peace.

and after that time is complete, the sun shall set into the eighth darkness, which shall never be vanquished except by the New Creation itself, that sabbath that is true, eternal, and final.

 

[fhansen]

…modern mystics, who prophecy a glorious age of peace, even a sabbath like rest, to follow an intermediate apostasy and tribulation.

Pardon my ignorance, but who are these modern mystics?

 

[spauline]

Pardon my ignorance, but who are these modern mystics?

EWTN article on endtimes, see also the 23 year compilation of Desmond Birch’s research in Trial, Tribulation, and Triumph.

Here is the EWTN link, actually, I should say, the mystics since Augustine:

ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm

quote:

Approved Catholic mystics (Venerables, Blessed and Saints, approved apparitions) throw considerable light on this order, by prophesying a minor apostasy and tribulation toward the end of the world, after which will occur the reunion of Christians. Only later will the entire world fall away from Christ (the great apostasy) and the personal Antichrist arise and the Tribulation of the End occur.

Although this is not Catholic doctrine, arising as it does from private revelation, it conforms to what is occurring in our time, especially in light of Our Lady of Fátima’s promise of an “Era of Peace.” This “Triumph of the Immaculate Heart” (other saints have spoken of a social reign of Jesus Christ when Jesus will reign in the hearts of men) would seem to occur prior to the rise of the Antichrist. The optimism of the Pope for the “New Evangelization” and a “Civilization of Love” in the Third Millennium of Christianity fits here, as well. This would place us, therefore, in the period just before the events spoken of in the Catechism, that is, on the verge of the evangelization of the entire world. Other interpretations are possible, but none seem to fit the facts as well, especially when approved mystics are studied, instead of merely alleged ones.

 

[spauline]

so then, here is the meaning of the days of creation according to the ECFs.

Five ages are the old law, the sixth is the Church, the seventh is the Millennium of rest, and the eighth is the eternal new sabbath, that shall never end, the New Creation.

Augustine, despite his amillennialism, at one time delineated the five ages:

From Adam to Noah is the first.
From Noah to Abraham is the second.
(and these first two ages, Augustine calls preeminent)
From Abraham to David is the third.
From David to the Babylonian Captivity is the fourth.
And from the Captivity until Christ is the fifth.
(and these three ages of the Jews, Augustine calls a prophecy of the Gospel.)

But then, just as three days are assigned to the Jews, the People of Old, so the Church has also three ages, the sixth, seventh, and eighth.

My theory is that just as modern Catholic spirituality delineates three great phases to the life of the saint–the purgative, illuminative, and unitive–so these three stages become simply a microcosmic example of three states the People of God must go through, both of Old and New covenants.

What then of the preeminent stages, the first two? What is their theology? In short, I see it as this: the first two ages follow the two primary lies of the dragon that I have discussed on the thread of the sacraments and Christian division. For when we recall that we observed the totality of all iniquity is summarized in anti-baptism and anti-marriage, in that, first, anti-baptism implies the total negation of Divine Truth and of seeking the Divine Will, and that, second, the other lie is materialism, the creation divorced utterly from its mystery and sacrament, so then these are the first two lies that govern the preeminent stages. For, in the first age, which was Noah’s day, humanity scoffs utterly at Divine Revelation and seeks not the Divine Will, so that they were clearly anti-Baptism, and so then the Divine Response was precisely a great Baptism, namely the Flood. And in the second stage, Babel, materialism, or secular messianism, was the primary lie, that is, anti-marriage, the total denial of the sacramentality of creation, and raising it above God, so then God responded with a marriage, that is, a spiritual one, where he divided man temporarily in order to take for Himself a spouse, the Hebrew People, through Abraham, a covenant, an exchange of whole persons in love.

This, then, is highly likely to be the meaning of the eight ages of salvation history.

also note that the beast in Scripture seems to support this theology in Revelation 17, where the angel explains the meaning of the beast with seven heads:

Quote:

The seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman sitteth, and they are seven kings: 10 Five are fallen, one is, and the other is not yet come: and when he is come, he must remain a short time.

11 And the beast which was, and is not: the same also is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into destruction.

May God Bless the Catholic Church, and lead it to renew the face of the Earth. Allelulia, Alleluia.

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