Chance or divine plan?

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tonyrey said:
How do you decide what is unlikely and impossible where God is concerned?
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It is impossible for God to be on both sides of an issue, regardless of the supposed outcome.Free will and a plan are contradictory.

I know that is only two, but I am very tired.

Be well.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Let me know if I’m misinterpreting you, but no! The plan of Christ is true repentance, but free will abounds in so doing.

LOVE! 🙂
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I was referring to the belief of some that God has a plan for each of us as individuals. If that is the case there is no free will, if not, God cannot be omniscient because anything could happen.
 
oldcelt said:
I have no miracle cure for anything. I simply say that God has nothing to do with burdens, or blessings, etc., among the human race. You cannot be both a blessing and a curse at the same time.
I weep for the people who have lost children to terrible illness and are expecting an answer from God. In those cases I offer my support rather than pointing out the utter futility of their prayers.
The more I talk here, the more I realize that the Deist vision of God is actually far more loving.
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No, the Deist vision of God is remaking God, or making a false God to adore. It is saying that I am smarter than God himself and know more than God. So I am going to improve on God by making the true God look like an ***, and make myself like mr. wonderful.

Jesus died in crucifixtion out of love. It doesn’t get better than that.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
 
oldcelt said:
I was referring to the belief of some that God has a plan for each of us as individuals. If that is the case there is no free will, if not, God cannot be omniscient because anything could happen.
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Hello!

But God already knows our choices! God even knew the exact course of every snowflake, before it had fallen! 🙂

LOVE! 🙂
 
fred_conty said:
No, the Deist vision of God is remaking God, or making a false God to adore. It is saying that I am smarter than God himself and know more than God. So I am going to improve on God by making the true God look like an ***, and make myself like mr. wonderful.

Jesus died in crucifixtion out of love. It doesn’t get better than that.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.
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Deism does nothing of the sort. It simply looks at the world and believes accordingly. I have said several times on this forum that I see Deists as having a great respect for the Almighty by not involving Him in the day-to-day activities of man. We absolutely agree with Catholicism that he is the first cause of creation, but stop there,
How is that making God look like anything negative? We refuse to involve God in human suffering and wickedness so we have no need for justifying His involvement
 
Robert_Sock said:
Hello!

But God already knows our choices! God even knew the exact course of every snowflake, before it had fallen! 🙂

LOVE! 🙂
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Then there is no free will. If something is built, and the builder knows precisely what it will do, then the invention is nothing more than a tool.
 
oldcelt said:
Then there is no free will. If something is built, and the builder knows precisely what it will do, then the invention is nothing more than a tool.
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Indeed, it is written "Can I not do to you, house of Israel, as this potter has done?—oracle of the LORD. Indeed, like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, house of Israel. (Jeremiah 18:6). On the other hand, sin exists and God is not the author of it as it is written

"Do not say: “It was God’s doing that I fell away,”
for what he hates he does not do.
Do not say: “He himself has led me astray,”
for he has no need of the wicked. (Sirach 15: 11-12).
 
Richca said:
Indeed, it is written "Can I not do to you, house of Israel, as this potter has done?—oracle of the LORD. Indeed, like clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, house of Israel. (Jeremiah 18:6). On the other hand, sin exists and God is not the author of it as it is written

"Do not say: “It was God’s doing that I fell away,”
for what he hates he does not do.
Do not say: “He himself has led me astray,”
for he has no need of the wicked. (Sirach 15: 11-12).
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But can you, or anyone for that matter, show me one irrefutable instance of God’s intervention outside of scripture? How about one a little closer to our time?
 
oldcelt said:
Then there is no free will. If something is built, and the builder knows precisely what it will do, then the invention is nothing more than a tool.
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But the process of freewill does take its required course action; can we blame God of not being omniscient just because he knows something we don’t?

LOVE! 🙂
 
oldcelt said:
But can you, or anyone for that matter, show me one irrefutable instance of God’s intervention outside of scripture? How about one a little closer to our time?
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It may not be possible to show you. Our lives, whether we are aware of it or not, are conducted in relationship with our Creator. So the obvious instance, in our time, is right here and now. It’s not refutable, nor irrefutable; it’s just the way it is.
 
tonyrey said:
You are imposing limits on God’s power… :hmmm:
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By definition, having a plan means that you require certain actions by those involved. That is not free will, that is team play. Taken to the individual level you could argue that it is predestination.
 
oldcelt said:
By definition, having a plan means that you require certain actions by those involved. That is not free will, that is team play. Taken to the individual level you could argue that it is predestination.
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It is only predestination in the sense that we reap what we sow! It is not predetermination. Our destination is the result of what we choose to believe, how we live and whether we love ourselves more than others…
 
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