Change in teaching w.r.t. death penalty

[Roguish]

Not sure what happened to the other thread, but I can’t post there anymore. Some system glitch I guess.

Continuing the discussion from Pope Francis Ex Cathedra Death Penalty?:

Unfortunately, it’s based on a document that is even more problematic–one in which Pope Francis calls the death penalty “per se contrary to the Gospel”.

Thanks so much for pointing this out. I’d not read this before, and I’m not exaggerating when I say I’m shocked at its message. The following affronts me the worst – and yes I know I’m ranting, but I can’t help myself right now.

In past centuries, when means of defence were scarce and society had yet to develop and mature as it has, recourse to the death penalty appeared to be the logical consequence of the correct application of justice.

Society has developed and matured?? Is our Pope not aware that the world has obviously and rapidly been moving away from religious values for the past couple of centuries, and that it is continuing to do so and an increasingly alarming rate?

Sadly, even in the Papal States recourse was had to this extreme and inhumane remedy that ignored the primacy of mercy over justice.

The primacy of mercy over justice?? I invoke the great Chesterton: “For children are innocent and love justice, while most of us are wicked and naturally prefer mercy.”

Let us take responsibility for the past and recognize that the imposition of the death penalty was dictated by a mentality more legalistic than Christian. Concern for preserving power and material wealth led to an over-estimation of the value of the law and prevented a deeper understanding of the Gospel.

So here we have an explicit assessment of past popes’ governance as having been insufficiently Christian, greedy, obsessed with power, and overly legalistic. I am truly baffled that our current pontiff is comfortable with passing this judgment on the centuries of popes that came before him.

And the paragraph concludes:

Nowadays, however, were we to remain neutral before the new demands of upholding personal dignity, we would be even more guilty.

The new demands of upholding personal dignity? What the heck are those? Our forefathers did not understand human dignity? If modern man understands it better, then why is that the modern world is a total and complete mess?

I’m stunned, really. To me this document is so outrageous that I wondered for a few seconds if it was a hoax or a parody – until I looked up at the address bar of my browser and realized that I was on the Vatican’s own website. Un-be-lie-vable.

Last time I was so offended was the Ireland referendum. Now again. At least the Ireland referendum wasn’t the pope’s doing. This is.

For me it’s time to reconsider, for the second time in a few months, whether I still want to consider myself part of this Church. In a funny way I guess pnewton is right: perhaps I really am a Catholic only “by coincidence”, because really, I can’t in good conscience go on “obediently accepting” these “doctrinal developments” anymore.

 

[Genesis315]

“Religious submission” is not absolute–it is a qualified assent that can be withheld when, in good conscience, one believes there to be an error (which seems pretty apparent to me in this case). I don’t see this being docilely received by the whole Church and so I don’t think it touches the indefectibility of the Church. It will be for future bishops or Pope to correct it if it ends up causing too much confusion and division.

That address was to a small meeting so we wouldn’t even get to religious submission for those of us it was not directed at. This situation is not unlike Pope John XXII introducing errors through various addresses and sermons, causing division and confusion–thankfully, one of his successors definitively settled the matter.

 

[mrsdizzyd]

It’s not a system glitch. The thread was closed by the moderator.

 

[Roguish]

It’s not a system glitch. The thread was closed by the moderator.

Then why doesn’t it say that? We’re supposed to guess what happened?

And why would the moderator close the thread? Was anyone being offensive, i.e. more than usual on CAF?