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BT3241
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Could entropy be what came into being at the fall - did the universe exist with no entropy at one time. We know it spells the end of all things in the universe given enough time its in all the equations.
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Vico
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lil_user
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That the universe naturally evolves towards a state of maximum entropy is a conjecture, although a very good one. And even if it were accurate, there’s no guarantee that the Lord intends time to run all the way until then.
In any case, entropy relates to the very structure of creation, and the fall took place when creation was well-established as it required a definitive act of the will on the part of our first parents.
I would be curious to learn if there is any teaching about original sin affecting nature itself, beyond the known effects on man. That is, we know death is a consequence of sin, but I understand this to mean the death of man; I don’t know if the consummation of all things is a result of sin or a natural development that would have occurred even had we persevered in original innocence.
In any case, entropy relates to the very structure of creation, and the fall took place when creation was well-established as it required a definitive act of the will on the part of our first parents.
I would be curious to learn if there is any teaching about original sin affecting nature itself, beyond the known effects on man. That is, we know death is a consequence of sin, but I understand this to mean the death of man; I don’t know if the consummation of all things is a result of sin or a natural development that would have occurred even had we persevered in original innocence.
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Kullervo
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Wow I really like this type of thinking scientific yet theological.
I always thought that the fall is a great explanation of natural evil. There was Harmony and order in the Garden. I don’t think that natural disasters happened then/there. With the eating of the forbidden fruit we chose the knowledge of good and evil thus expelling ourselves out of the garden into a world with natural evil.
I always thought that the fall is a great explanation of natural evil. There was Harmony and order in the Garden. I don’t think that natural disasters happened then/there. With the eating of the forbidden fruit we chose the knowledge of good and evil thus expelling ourselves out of the garden into a world with natural evil.
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lil_user
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I do agree 100% that one of the consequences was discord between man and creation. But I understand that is due to the powers of the soul being affected by sin. The rest of creation is essentially incapable of sin since it lacks the rational aspect to the soul (not that there aren’t creatures capable of reasoning, but that they cannot discern right from wrong, so that f.ex. a dog stealing food is not a thief, a tiger attacking a village is not a murderer).
Nature has its set ways, and man, in the fullness of grace, is in harmony and even has authority over nature. The Christ clearly shows this in displaying signs of cooperation and even authority over the created world (ex. calming the storm) as do his followers (ex. St. Paul and the snake in 28:3-6 ref. Mk 16:18). I think even the whole interaction between Christ, St. Peter, and the water in Mt 14 shows this.
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HopkinsReb
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Short, technical answer, no. Entropy as thought of in the popular mind is not what entropy actually is. Entropy is a measurable thing. Any bit of matter has entropy, and that entropy can move in either direction based on the processes to which it is subjected.
Now, it is conceivable that, prior to the fall, God held the total entropy in the universe constant. But entropy did exist either way, and I see no reason to assume that He held it steady.
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HopkinsReb
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I believe @Tis_Bearself has a background in chemical engineering. She can probably speak to this more intelligently than I can. Multicomponent thermodynamics is more thorough than the baby thermodynamics we civil engineering majors take.
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Kullervo
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I too agree 100% 
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Psychae
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Interesting question!
I read about theology and quantum physics for fun… I’m no professional… that being said, here’s my thoughts:
Evil is the ultimate cause of every negative thing, including entropy. Evil existed and was in the Garden of Eden before the Fall, in the person of Satan, the snake who tempted Adam and Eve. (Remembering, of course, that Evil isn’t actually a thing, it’s a lack of a thing, that is, Good.) So IMO, entropy could very well have already been there, and Adam and Eve’s choice could be looked at as a rejection of God’s protection from the forces of Evil, including entropy.
God being all-knowing, He foresaw our first parents’ choice and even then permitted Satan to be there, to tempt them… so entropy could have been an allowed part of His master plan all along. It’s very easy for Him to bring Good out of every Evil, so this idea doesn’t bother me.
Thoughts?
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EloyCraft
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Romans 8-20
the creation was subjected to futility , not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
the creation was subjected to futility , not of its own will but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
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Psychae
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Does this mean something like:
Humans (and the Universe) were made vulnerable to Evil, not by their own choice, but by God’s choice, because He has Divine Hope (or knowledge?) that everything will turn out OK
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Benadam
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Hi Psychae. The hope was in man. God intends man to lead creation to it’s fulfillment . The futility is a good meant to reveal the dignity of man to all creation. That futility is death.
Benadam aka Eloy Craft
Benadam aka Eloy Craft
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TK421
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The abode God prepared for Adam was endowed with special characteristics, since he was created above the animals. After the first sin, he became subject to the natural order of the world like the beasts.
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