Changes that happen after a parish gets a new pastor

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matas2

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I returned to the Church in 2004, and over the past fifteen years I have twice witnessed the process and the events that occur after a pastor retires or is transferred, and a new pastor moves in. I watched the process at two parishes where I attend mass regularly, and I’d like to talk about what I have observed.

I’m sort of new at both parishes, and both had pastors that had been there over ten years. There seemed to be a lot of people that were important - sometimes whole families - surrounding the pastors. They were lay ministers, parish council people, music ministry people, RCIA people, and other sorts that had duties and tasks and were generally highly visible people in the parish. I like getting involved and I did a stint on parish council myself, and got to know who’s who at the parish.

Then the pastor retires and all of sudden, all these important people seem to be not so important anymore. They don’t have the same level of access to the pastor that they once enjoyed, and have to establish a new relationship from scratch. I observed that personalities don’t always mesh, or some people attempt to “boss” the new pastor around a bit. That doesn’t usually work out very well. So as the new pastor takes a year or two to get established, many formerly important people are gone. They are not just regular parishioners that you see every week - they are just gone. I know some people did not like certain changes and left because they were mad. But others just disappeared. I wonder, did they just leave the Church. What happened? I don’t like when this happens, and I find it somewhat disturbing. Not in a faith-shaking way, because I’m still going to Church. I still help out. I pray for them and hope that everything is OK.

Anyone experience this in a negative way? How did you get over the change in pastors and come back to Church?
 
matas2 said:
Anyone experience this in a negative way? How did you get over the change in pastors and come back to Church?
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I’ve been actively involved in a parish of 7000 families and a parish of 70 families. I’ve seen priests come and go. I haven’t experienced a lot of what you observed.

I have seen a few people get mad at a priest for a rather small thing and declare they are leaving the parish. Those people said they were going to mass at another parish but in fact they don’t go to mass at all anymore. So I think that getting “mad” at the priest for some perceived slight was just an excuse to do what they wanted to do— stop going to church.
 
There are always people who are overly attached to an existing pastor or like the power position they have with him, and get bothered when a new pastor comes who has different ideas or prefers to work with other parishioners or makes changes that the entrenched old guard don’t like.

Some of the “highly visible” people will just sort of fade away into the background but keep coming to Mass, some will find another parish to attend, and some might leave the Church entirely in which case it’s their loss. Having seen four pastors in the parish I grew up in, three of whom were there for many years, it wasn’t that big of a deal to be honest. No one is irreplaceable, and the parish will continue to function even if Bob Bigshot quits the parish council. Over time, people are also going to naturally age out, move elsewhere (for example, retirement communities, better climates, wealthier suburbs, closer to their children, etc), develop other interests like spending time with their grandkids or working in some other ministry not necessarily connected to the parish, and sometimes life changes coincide naturally with some milestone like “Pastor X left so I don’t really feel like doing this ministry any more under the new guy.”

You see all the same stuff happen in a business office when some big shot boss leaves. The people closest to him often find someplace else to go, whether that’s some other department or a different employer or they decide to take retirement or what.

I am not the type of person who gets all attached to any particular pastor or priest because whoever it is, they aren’t going to be around forever, and they all have clay feet, and I don’t get a huge sense of my identity or sense of purpose (Catholic or otherwise) from being one of those volunteers who hover around the parish being a big shot and buddy-buddy with the pastor. I always thought that was a bit sad but if it works for some people I try not to judge. I know for a fact that some of them have had situations at home where they really need that kind of involvement with a parish.

Bottom line is you’re not going to be able to personally do anything about this other than what you’re already doing, which is to be supportive of all your pastors and not be trying to boss the pastors around, and pray for those parishioners whom you don’t see any more, and maybe if you know them well enough to check up on them you could give them a call although this runs the risk of you having to listen to an hour of them ranting about how much they hate the new pastor. This sort of thing isn’t unique to Catholic churches either. I’ve seen or been aware of similar stuff going on in Protestant churches when the church either changes ministers, or the existing minister decides to go in a new direction.
 
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I am so sorry this is upsetting you. I can see how when they leave it might mean they really left the Church! I’ve not seen people ‘leave’ at least not yet in our 20 year attendance at our parish. But, recently we did get a new pastor and our ‘vip’ families were a little shook. The new pastor isn’t “buddy buddy” with anyone. (Words I’ve actually heard about him!) This has encouraged others who are involved in the church, but had never quite became VIPs. It’s only seemed to encouraged more people to get involved. I am not very involved in parish ministry right now, my family situation and sometimes my own health have caused me to dial down my parish involvement long before this recent pastoral change. But We still go, even at other parishes because of the time the Mass is offered. So maybe these families have moved on to another parish or are going at different times at your parish than they used to go.

I’m curious to see how this runs over here after reading your post. I really hope these families stay and grow in joy and faith even if the are no longer ‘important’ in the same way.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
similar stuff going on in Protestant churches when the church either changes ministers, or the existing minister decides to go in a new direction.
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And myriad other reasons. Back when my family went to a Nazarene church, there was a split in the congregation that was triggered by the Pastor’s wife having what was then called a “nervous breakdown”. One group tried to blame a different group and most of the people either took sides or just left in disgust at both groups. My family ended up leaving and not moving to a different church, and a family that we were friends with cut off communication because we didn’t actively support their side. Or at least that’s how my young self (this was during the time period that the Apollo program was active to give you an idea of how young I was…) remembers it. The church itself survived even though it was greatly reduced in numbers for a while, and a lot of records were never properly filed.
 
Maybe I’m too oblivious, but I have never seen this happen with a new pastor. But, we did lose a lot of very talented choir members after our old music director of many years retired and they didn’t exactly see eye to eye with the new one. From what I heard, the ones that left are singing in another parish and, despite that contentious music director being long gone, I haven’t seen anybody that left return. I guess they must be too comfortable in that new choir.
 
I’ve been at places where the new priest came in so seamlessly that in spite of making changes no one seemed to be upset, let alone threatening to leave. I’ve been at other places where the changes were so abrupt that a large portion of long-time parishioners left en masse, most attending one of three or four neighboring parishes. I have been at one parish where the reaction to changes was so extreme that I left myself just because seeing my long-time friends on both sides of the “fence” took too much of an emotional toll. It was also really difficult to remain charitable in the middle of it, it really was. It did split the parish, which was sad. If everybody had been thrilled or everybody had been upset, I think it would have been a lot easier, but as it was there was so much taking sides that it got to be too much. I imagine that things will calm down eventually, but the turn-over in long-time parishioners (meaning there for at least 25 years and three pastors or more) was unlike anything I’d ever seen personally. Luckily, I think most do attend regularly somewhere else, although there are a few I’ve kept track of who are still bouncing around. The ones I know who quit going altogether were young ones who based on choosing not to go through confirmation may have had a foot out the door already, but I can’t know that.

I think the wholesale changes are somewhat more likely when a religious order leaves and a diocesan priest or a different religious order comes in. That charism a religious order has is a real thing, and when they leave after being at a parish for a long time it does seem to change the character of the parish.
 
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I’ve been around many different parishes and have seen many priests come and go. Parish dynamics vary a great deal from place to place. I’ve seen a parish where a large group left one parish for a neighboring parish because they didn’t like the new pastor, only to return several years later when their new parish got a new pastor they disliked more that the first (who was still there).

Some people leave for another parish. Some people just stop attending Church altogether.

Ultimately, it’s pointless to speculate as to what an individual is doing. I would take it as a little nudge from God to pray for those people whenever you start to wonder what happened to them.
 
Like the church scandals, anyone that leaves a parish because they get a new pastor or priest, or lost their “inside” track is not at mass for the right reason to begin with. Concentrate on God and why we are at mass: The Eucharist.
 
I think the US should follow the universal law and pastors should be installed at a parish indefinitely. Pastors need to get to know their flock and there needs to develop a deep relationship between the pastors and the members. Just as Bishops are supposedly a lifetime appointment, so should a pastor feel his appointment is for a lifetime.
What we have know are staff employees who are the people who have an indefinite service, they outlast any pastor and they have way too much control in the parish culture, etc.
 
I am sorry you feel that way about your parish. If you are and other members are unwilling to get involved in your parish, what would you expect except the status quo? “Cancerous” is a pretty strong word for someone that does not want to be involved. Ultimately, the pastor has the last word on things. If people have been helping for 45 years as you say, that would mean that more than one pastor has found them to be helpful, not cancerous.

I do sense a tone of bitterness in your comment about furniture though that seems to have nothing to do with your choosing not to be involved.
 
Pastors can always be removed from a diocese for causes specified by canon law, which are fairly broadly written. If a parish is floundering, a Bishop can always step in. We should do things the way that works most often and fix the problems that arise on a case by case basis,.
 
I have to admit I was a lot happier when pastors would pretty much be part of their parish for life rather than the current setup where they kind of cycle through every 6 years and get sent someplace else. I realize some of them probably want the opportunity to do new things though.

In one of my dioceses the pastors can opt to renew their commitment and not just be sent willy-nilly wherever. So they tend to stick around for a decade or more. I like that.
 
Irishmom2 said:
I am sorry you feel that way about your parish. If you are and other members are unwilling to get involved in your parish, what would you expect except the status quo? “Cancerous” is a pretty strong word for someone that does not want to be involved. Ultimately, the pastor has the last word on things. If people have been helping for 45 years as you say, that would mean that more than one pastor has found them to be helpful, not cancerous.

Having said that, we always have to remember that a pastor has to be himself. He cannot be the last pastor, and it is usually a disaster if he tries. There is not a lot of grace supplied when we try to be someone other than the one who our Creator wisely (if inexplicably!) made us to be.

I do sense a tone of bitterness in your comment about furniture though that seems to have nothing to do with your choosing not to be involved.
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I agree that this is a chicken-and-egg issue: that is, if people won’t get involved until the people who are involved are “cleared out,” the “entrenched” ones are not going anywhere.

A priest who tries to “change the parish culture” unilaterally is rushing in where angels fear to tread. I’m not saying it cannot work (and I have never been “to bus driver school” as a wag in our parish puts it) but drawing out what is best and gradually changing what needs to work better really does change more hearts, rather than just swapping out disagreers from inside with agreeing people from outside. It takes more patience, but pastors tend to want to come back in with the very sheep they went out with, not just the same number. That’s the difference between a good shepherd and someone who is just counting heads and income as markers of “success.”
 
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Here in our archdiocese, most priests are appointed to 6 year terms; that can be renewed for an additional 6, but that’s commonly about it. I think it reduces the one group runs it all syndrome in some ways. You still see hints of what you describe, but it’s not quite so drastic. It’s more of the whole parish has trended differently than me/my family, so we go across town to where that pendulum is swinging the other way.

As said above, you also get to know the staff more than (or just as well as) the priests as staff tend to be the more stable force and can aid in building the relationships when clergy changes occur.
 
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In my Diocese pastors are usually given the option to request a second six-year term if things are running smoothly in the parish.

In several parishes where the TLM is offered pastors have been allowed to stay longer than twelve years because we don’t have many priests who are interested in offering that form of Mass.

When our pastor retired several years ago and another older priest was assigned to the parish there was some turnover in leadership positions held by parishioners and some long time parishioners left and some people that knew the new pastor from other assignments began coming to Mass at our parish.

Overall it was a pretty smooth transition, though.
 
I agree totally. Our current priest is probably not going to be here much longer, since he has been here for some time already. He has eight or nine years in at this church. I only have three years in. I’m going to miss our priest when he leaves, but I am just so thankful that he was the one that was here when I converted and when I joined this church. He and his parochial pastor (long gone) were both so welcoming and so nice to me as I settled into the church.
 
One of the advantages of being at a Byzantine parish is that we follow the universal pattern (permanent appointment), rather than the american RCC rule (six year, with potentially one re-appoinment).

Our pastor n(who is spectacular) has quipped that he’ll be buried here.

(our prior priest, and administrator borrowed from the Franciscans, asked his order to retire after his stroke. Their response was, “Oh, no, you stay right there with those people. They take better care of you than we possibly could!” (and then, after they signed our current priest to a contract about 3./4 time with the RCC, the old one went to a conference or retreat, they looked at his complexion, and pulled him on the spot! Causing some chaos between the two local parishes and covering everything . . .). [to be clear, the parish took care of him at a level that would have been tough to match in a skilled nursing home . . .]
 
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matas2 said:
Anyone experience this in a negative way? How did you get over the change in pastors and come back to Church?
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Change is something many people are uncomfortable with. Each new Priest or Pastor or Bishop has his way of doing things. It can upset parishioners, it can be a breath of fresh air to parishioners.

I think the most important point is we are there to worship God. We require a leader in order to do that at Mass, the man who can confect the Eucharist.
Whatever personal differences or issues are being had with the incoming clergyman, they really should be put aside and the man allowed to lead his community.
We should be welcoming and friendly to him.

When I came back to a certain Diocese, I had many gossip about this or that clergy man. I find that it is not productive to engage in any gossip, and a lot more productive to shut down the gossiper by changing the topic or walking away.

@(name removed by moderator) Happy cake day
 
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