Changes to the Douay Rheims

[Casilda]

I am sorry that I do not know Latin, or Hebrew or Greek. Having been in protestant churches most of my life I like to look at the original word used in passages of Scripture. I use concordances to look up word origins and their meanings. This habit has actually led my husband to the Catholic faith, and I am back also.

One word recently caught us, that originally (in 1899 and 1914 versions of the Douay Rheims) it was as translated from the Latin. But in newer versions, my 1950 Confraternity, it was changed to match the protestant translation.

How was the Lord’s Prayer recited prior to 1950? The word in question is ‘daily’, how it was used in Matthew 6:11 and Luke 11:3 in the Lord’s Prayer.

Douay Rheims, 1899 & 1914
Give us this day our supersubstantial bread.

Douay Rheims, 1950 (Confraternity)
Give us this day our daily bread.

New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
Give us this day our daily bread.[c]
[c] our bread for tomorrow

daily, as used in Matthew 6:11 & Luke 11:3 (only two places in the Bible that it is used),
Greek=Epiousios
meaning, for subsistance, needful, necessity

It seems to us that the newer versions are an intentional dumbing down of the essential meaning of this word. We see it meaning the Eucharist. Are we correct?

 

[anruari]

I believe it’s a case of both/and
perhaps a better simple translation might be “give us this day the bread we need”

This is true both for the natural bread and food we eat and also the supernatural Bread that comes down from Heaven.

translation is an inherently imprecise discipline as an ambiguity or complexity in one language can be just as impossible to translate as a play on words or a rhyme

 

[rcwitness]

I recently learned about this word, supersubstantial, used by St. Jerome in the Latin Vulgate. Wasn’t it only used in one of the accounts? Im thinking Luke, but not sure.

Anyway, when trying to discern wheather or not Jesus intended this bread called for in our prayer from Him, I think we can believe so.

anruari makes a point of being able to acknowledge both Spiritual bread and physical bread for our bodily needs. This is a Catholic way of looking at Prophecy, the both/and approach as opposed to either/or. It is not a cop out practice, because it accepts the conviction of both and there is usually a more prominent meaning taken away which works with and supports the other as opposed to being at odds with it.

The other reason this both/and approach works in this situation is because the nature of His Eucharist in itself has the effects of being physical bread that feeds us Spiritually as well, through His Word made flesh!

Therefore, another question it raises, is where was this prayer given to us from Jesus intended to be prayed? In our coming together over Liturgy, or privately in our quite prayer to the Father? Again, I say it can be both/and, yet it is more phrased as a corporal prayer. This, to me, supports the Eucharist being petitioned for.

Jesus also made reference to the Spiritual Bread we were commanded to rely on when tempted by the devil. Jesus alone relied on this bread against all temptation and trial! Thus He was able to become the physical AND Spiritual Bread He gives us through His Church.

 

[Shin]

Referring to the original Douai (instead of the revised Challoner, or even later revisions) along with the Vulgate will really help you with original word meanings, literal meanings and deeper meanings.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The term “epiousios” means “for the coming day”. It’s derived from the words “on” and “being”, so I can understand translating it as “supersubstantial” – but that translation is pretty clearly a bad one.