Charisimatic renewal? Wrong? Damaging?

[CathMass]

I have a big problem. I have not really dealt with the Charismatic movement in the church and really don’t know anything about it and I was told my some people that it was wrong and that it was condemned by Paul VI and I am really worried because a relative wants to take me to a Charismatic Mass and in light of these doubts I don’t know if I should go because of what I heard.
Can anyone ou there help me?
Thanks and God Bless

 

[Mom_of_one]

Well, I went to Franciscan University of Steubenville. They are very orthodox and they have charismatic Masses every day. So, I don’t think that it is wrong at all.

 

[DIT]

Charismatic renewal, while loosing some favor in the past few years, is in no way illegal in the Catholic Church. In our diocese, there are about 25-plus churches that have Charimatic renewal prayer groups that are active.

While it will be a different experience for you initially, you should give it a chance and see if this movement works for you. Expect to be with very open people who have a “fire” in their souls about their faith.

 

[steve99]

DIT:

Charismatic renewal, while loosing some favor in the past few years, is in no way illegal in the Catholic Church. In our diocese, there are about 25-plus churches that have Charimatic renewal prayer groups that are active.

While it will be a different experience for you initially, you should give it a chance and see if this movement works for you. Expect to be with very open people who have a “fire” in their souls about their faith.

Could you expand on your comment that the Charismatic renewal is “loosing some favor in the past few years”. In what way? Where? Do you mean in official quarters (e.g. at the Vatican) or just locally? I’m not getting at you, I’m just curious as to why you say this.

Charismatic Renewal is fully recognised by the church. John Paul II was very supportive of the renewal.

 

[byzmelkite]

I won’t say too much here. I have one concern. The charismatic renewal has its origin in the charismatic movement of the 1960s which has its origin in heretical pentecostalism of the early 1900s. Something that is so recent and which has its roots in questionable theology should be treated with suspicion. That being said, the movement as a whole is permitted by the Church and the Vatican I think is willing to give approval to any movement that unites people more closely to Christ and the faith of the Church.

Here are some things I would watch out for though:

1.) For many charismatics, “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is seen to be an experience seperate from baptism and Confirmation/Chrismation. This is unbliblical and untraditional.

2.) Some charismatics practice “falling asleep in the spirit.” The protestant version is “being slain in the spirit.” There is no basis for this practice in Scripture or Tradition.

3.) In some charismatic circles, there is an aura of pride and spiritual elitism. Watch out for this and watch out for people who will try to control and manipulate you, telling you that “God has laid it on their heart to …”

With these reservations, I would say its okay to get involved in the charismatic movement if it remains faithful to the orthodox teaching of the Church and if its helpful to you. God bless.

 

[steve99]

byzmelkite:

1.) For many charismatics, “baptism of the Holy Spirit” is seen to be an experience seperate from baptism and Confirmation/Chrismation.

I think it depends what you mean by separate. It is a physically separate experience, just as baptism and confirmation are physically separate. But it is directly linked to them.

byzmelkite:

2.) Some charismatics practice “falling asleep in the spirit.” The protestant version is “being slain in the spirit.” There is no basis for this practice in Scripture or Tradition.

How about 1 Sam 19:18-24. Sounds much like being slain in the spirit (although without the stripping off!).

Or Acts 9:3-7

byzmelkite:

3.) In some charismatic circles, there is an aura of pride and spiritual elitism. Watch out for this and watch out for people who will try to control and manipulate you, telling you that “God has laid it on their heart to …”

“In some charismatic circles” - please be careful about such subjective comments Also you get an “aura of pride and spiritual elitism” is many areas of the church.

“Today there are over 120 million people who will testify to a life changing experience of the Holy Spirit through their contact withthe Catholic Charismatic Renewal”.

Pope Paul VI far from condemning the Renewal referred to it as “a chance for the Church and for the world”

Both quotes from a booklet “What is the nature of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal” by Charles Whitehead who was for 11 years the chairman of the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services and had many meetings with the Pope (JPII) about the renewal movement.

 

[threej_lc]

byzmelkite:

2.) Some charismatics practice “falling asleep in the spirit.” The protestant version is “being slain in the spirit.” There is no basis for this practice in Scripture or Tradition.

In addition to the Acts quote listed above, check out:
John 18:

4  Jesus, knowing everything that was going to happen to him, went out and said to them, "Whom are you looking for?"   5  They answered him, "Jesus the Nazorean." [4](http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/john/john18.htm#foot4) He said to them, "I AM." Judas his betrayer was also with them.   6  When he said to them, "I AM," they turned away and fell to the ground.

Those present were so overpowered by the Almighty coming into his Glory and proclaiming his true presence that their bodies collapsed.

Other quotes of interest:

This authentic desire to situate yourselves in the Church is the authentic sign of the action of the Holy Spirit … How could this ‘spiritual renewal’ not be a chance for the Church and the world? And how, in this case could one not take all the means to ensure that it remains so…

Pope Paul VI,
Speaking to the International Conference on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal on May 19, 1975

I am convinced that this movement is a very important component of the entire renewal of the Church.

This was my own spiritual initiation, so I can understand all these charisms. They are all part of the richness of the Lord. I am convinced that this movement is a sign of his action.

Pope John Paul II
December 11, 1979

At the heart of a world imbued with a rationalistic skepticism, a new experience of the Holy Spirit suddenly burst forth. And, since then, that experience has assumed a breadth of a worldwide Renewal movement. What the New Testament tells us about the charisms - which were seen as visible signs of the coming of the Spirit - is not just ancient history, over and done with, for it is once again becoming extremely topical.

Cardinal Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict)

…Would you like any more?
Josh

 

[selvaraj]

Charismatic prayer is approved by Vatican, and which is really spritual. But I disagree the tongue prayer.

In Christ,
selvaraj

 

[dumspirospero]

I agree with Byzmelkite…It is my personal opinion that this movement was approved by the Church to keep a large group of Catholics from leaving the Church and going to Evangelical or Pentecostal Churches…this movement was approved for retention purposes. Also, keep in mind that just because 120 million people have been changed by this…it doesn’t absolutely mean that it is The Holy Spirit that is directing this…Is it not possible that this movement is not directed by God at all…but by someone else?? I am highly suspect of this movement and I believe this is one of the ways the gates of Hell is trying to harm the Church…by weakening us from within. Then again I could be completely wrong…I apologize if my views offend anyone, but this is my gut feeling about this movement. I just don’t see any problem in worshiping the same way as Catholics worshiped for the first 1960-1970 years…plain and simple.

steve99:

I think it depends what you mean by separate. It is a physically separate experience, just as baptism and confirmation are physically separate. But it is directly linked to them.

How about 1 Sam 19:18-24. Sounds much like being slain in the spirit (although without the stripping off!).

Or Acts 9:3-7

“In some charismatic circles” - please be careful about such subjective comments Also you get an “aura of pride and spiritual elitism” is many areas of the church.

“Today there are over 120 million people who will testify to a life changing experience of the Holy Spirit through their contact withthe Catholic Charismatic Renewal”.

Pope Paul VI far from condemning the Renewal referred to it as “a chance for the Church and for the world”

Both quotes from a booklet “What is the nature of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal” by Charles Whitehead who was for 11 years the chairman of the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal Services and had many meetings with the Pope (JPII) about the renewal movement.

 

[threej_lc]

dumspirospero:

I agree with Byzmelkite…It is my personal opinion that this movement was approved by the Church to keep a large group of Catholics from leaving the Church and going to Evangelical or Pentecostal Churches…

Yeah, just like how in John 6 when all of Christ’s disciples left him calling the Eucharist “too hard of a teaching.” He called them back and dumbed the teaching down so as to not lose such large numbers of the faithful.

Just how the Vatican publically announced Society of Pius the Xth as a good, orthodox organization to prevent losing numbers of the faithful.

The church does not sell out.

Also, keep in mind that just because 120 million people have been changed by this…it doesn’t absolutely mean that it is The Holy Spirit that is directing this…

True, it is no guarentee. But luckily the bible gives us a basis for discerning movements in the spirit: “By their fruits you will know them.”

Now it is true that some members of the charismatic movement have been lead astray by it. However, a true charismatic recognizes the necessity of the orthodoxy and liturgy of the Church. Judging the movement by members not loyal to the church is the same as judging the Catholic church as a whole by those not loyal to it.

That having been said, the only large negative effect I have ever seen of the renewal is the distrust, disunity, and anger in those who do not accept it.

Then again I could be completely wrong…I apologize if my views offend anyone, but this is my gut feeling about this movement.

Similarly, although I used sarcasm above to make a point, it is not my intention to sound as though I’m attacking. It just seemed to me that it would convey my thought most clearly.

I just don’t see any problem in worshiping the same way as Catholics worshiped for the first 1960-1970 years…plain and simple.

Well, that’s just it. That is how Catholics worshiped for the first 200 years!

Furthermore, if we didn’t seek to persue new ways to worship, the church would not have such wonderful gifts today like Eucharistic Adoration.

Josh

 

[byzmelkite]

Ultimately, its up to you what you want to do. Like I said, if you are edified and blessed by it, then go for it. I’m perfectly happy not being anywhere near the charismatic movement and I intend things to stay that way. God bless.

 

[DIT]

steve99:

Could you expand on your comment that the Charismatic renewal is “loosing some favor in the past few years”. In what way? Where? Do you mean in official quarters (e.g. at the Vatican) or just locally? I’m not getting at you, I’m just curious as to why you say this.

Charismatic Renewal is fully recognised by the church. John Paul II was very supportive of the renewal.

Sorry for the delay in answering your reply. My statement for “loosing some favor” was in relation to members of our local diocese and IMO (IMO = in my option) by some of the religious leaders in the US. Please remember that these are not my personal feelings but just observations.

I see that people sort of view the Charismatic Renewel groups in almost the same light as Evanglical preachers you see on TV. IMO that is sad. What I think makes some people uncomfortable is when they hear about people speaking in tongues, people “passing out” in prayer services (when they actually rest in the Spirit), and people singing and sometimes dancing to religious songs.

The conservative leaning members of the Catholic Church become cautious when hearing about these things. Many of the conservatives see this as liberal based worship services.

Again, just in my observations.