Charismatics.....please provide a definition

[Jadesfire20]

Hi all

Considering that previous threads addressing the Charismatic movement have gotten rather heated I’m almost afraid to start this thread. However I’m going to anyway because I really want to get a better understanding…so here goes:tiphat:

I was hoping someone could tell me what the heck it means to be charismatic? When I asked this previously several people said that all Catholics were charismatics. If that is true then why is the Charismatic movement spoken of as if it is a separate entity that is distinct from more mainstream Catholicism? If we are all charismatics, is the CM even necessary? Why are there specific “Charismatic masses” when by definition the Holy Spirit is present in every mass, whether Novus Ordo or the TLM? The complaints that people have made about the CM have revolved mostly around the liturgy…is the CM some sort of liturgical movement?

In summary: if you were to write a definition of “charismatic”, what would it be?

Thanks,
Very Confused

 

[Makerteacher]

An excellent question. I’ll do my best. I hope others will pitch in too.

Charismatics are persons who have received some of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, in order to do the work of God in the world today. While these gifts are given to individual people in various ways, they are meant **for the entire Body of Christ ** and must be used as such. These gifts are present to the person as long as he remains in a state of sanctifying grace.

The Catechism states: “The moral life of Christians is sustained by the gifts of the Holy Spirit. These are permanent dispositions which make man docile in following the promptings of the Holy Spirit… They complete and perfect the virtues of those who receive them. They make the faithful docile in readily obeying divine inspirations” (No. 1830-31).

The gifts include:

**Isaiah 11:1-5 ** : wisdom, understanding, counsel, strength, knowledge, the fear of the LORD, and piety.

1 Corinthians 12:8-11 : words of wisdom (also James 1:5) ; words of knowledge; faith; healing; miracle-working; prophecy; distinguishing of spirits (also called discernment); tongues; interpretation of tongues.

Ephesians 4 : (roles for people in the Church) : apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, teachers;

In today’s lingo, I’d say that the term “charismatic” also generally includes persons who attend special prayer meetings where praise and worship is the focus, and they are known to wave their hands in the air while they sing, and to pray for each other while reaching out their hands or placing them on the other person’s shoulders or back.

Charismatics are known to praise privately in tongues without public interpretation, which some people find offensive, though I do not find this to be anti-Scriptural since it is not prophectic in nature. (Others disagree. I am sure they will post here too.)

The minor (Scripturally labelled as “lesser”) gift of tongues appears to be the most controversial of the manifestations of these gifts.Yet a large proportion of Charismatics (and Pentecostalists, the protestant version) do not speak in tongues at all. It’s not a gift everyone gets, and that’s OK. It’s a pretty minor gift, according to Scripture. Not nearly as useful to the body as having good leaders and teachers.

As with anything, the gifts of the Holy Spirit within a body should be judged by the fruits of the Holy Spirit pouring forth out of that body. Do they demonstrate consistent Charity, Joy, Peace, Patience, Kindness, Goodness, Generosity, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Modesty, Self-control, Chastity?

If I may quote from Father William Saunders, "Each baptized and confirmed Christian should implore the Holy Spirit to inflame in his soul these gifts. Our Holy Father, Pope John Paul II said, “With gifts and qualities such as these, we are equal to any task and capable of overcoming any difficulties.”

 

[misericordie]

Makerteacher, I want to say that the school you mention on the thread: “detecting Fake tongues” etc. Seems to be a great school! I saw the link you provided on that other thread.

Many blessings.:clapping:

 

[Makerteacher]

misericordie:

Makerteacher, I want to say that the school you mention on the thread: “detecting Fake tongues” etc. Seems to be a great school! I saw the link you provided on that other thread.

Many blessings.:clapping:

Thanks Misericordie. It’s where I teach ( middle school level, history, english, and my favorite, religion) , and it’s the school our charismatic community (CCGD, The Christian Community of God’s Delight) sponsors.

www.lumen2000.com
then follow the link to Prince of Peace Community School, the red and white banner under “associated ministries”

 

[keith2002]

Makerteacher:

The minor (Scripturally labelled as “lesser”) gift of tongues appears to be the most controversial of the manifestations of these gifts.Yet a large proportion of Charismatics (and Pentecostalists, the protestant version) do not speak in tongues at all. It’s not a gift everyone gets, and that’s OK. It’s a pretty minor gift, according to Scripture. Not nearly as useful to the body as having good leaders and teachers.

."

I appreciate your comments here. I was at a Charismatic conference where a priest tried to make the case that tongues is like the first gift on a ladder of gifts and that it’s something we should all have. He made it sound like if we didn’t “get” the gift of tongues we weren’t open enough to God.

Then he led the group in trying to get the gift. He encourged all to just babble and maybe it would come.

All too off base for me. I know a Vatican II document explicitly warns us as faithful not to pursue this gift (or maybe even any gift). I fanyone knows what or where that is, I would appreciate it.

keith

 

[Arlene_Alice]

Keith:

My suggestion is to visit the other threads that have debated the Charismatic Movement back and forth, pro and con…ad infinitum.

Those who are for it have provided ample links, documents, resources, citing authorities of the Church, including Pope John Paul II who has given it his blessing.

I know of no Vatican II document that condemns the gift of tongues. If you can provide it here, please do.

As for the priest who tried to teach participants how to open their worship to the gift of “speaking in tongues,” I see no absurdity in this. When I received the gift of tongues, I just repeated Allelujia, Allelujia, over and over in a spirit of worship. Suddenly, the gift manifested itself as “tongues.” The experience may be different with each individual. The priest was just trying to encourage these people to allow the Holy Spirit to use their tongues in worship.

I believe most of the criticism of the Catholic Charismatic Movement comes from those who fear this mystery , do not know that it has scriptural roots in the Upper Room experience, and has been a phenomenon that has visited the Church throughout our 2000 year history. To question the gift of tongues, and other outward manifestations of the Holy Spirit, I hold, is to question the validity of the scriptures and our traditions.

What we should be doing instead of wasting our time arguing about the Charismatic Movement is to pray for the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the entire Church. It was not until the first Pentecost Day, and the tongues of fire descending upon Mary and the Apostles, that this small band of very defeated, fearful, confused, weary and powerless disciples felt the Power of the Holy Spirit infilling them with the grace to go out and preach, teach, heal, and to evanglize the world. Without Pentecost Day and this Divine manifestation, the disciples of Christ would have probably folded their tents and returned to their former occupations.

We need a fresh Pentecost Day! Let us Pray: Come Holy Spirit, fill the hearts of Thy Faithful, and enkindle within us the FIRE of Thy Love. Send forth Thy Spirit, and Thou shalt Renew the Face of the Earth! Amen!

 

[Jadesfire20]

Hi all,

I think this thread is starting to go on a tangent. :banghead: I’m not asking to debate the merits or errors of the CM, I’m just hoping that some of the charismatics on this board could enlighten us on what exactly it means to be charismatic…that’s all. Please stick to answering my original question (see my first post).

Thanks!

 

[robertaf]

Hi Church
Hi JadesFire

You beat me to it. I was going to ask if folks would just allow the Charismatics to answer your questions.

I hope they will be polite and let that be done.

 

[keith2002]

I won’t belabor the point but I was asked to provide the quote I was thinking about here it is…

Lumen Gentium # 13

“These charisms, whether the most brilliant or even the more simply and widely diffused, since they are well accommodated to the needs of the Church, are to be received with thanks and consolation. However, the extraordinary ones are not to be rashly
sought, nor should fruits of apostolic works be presumptuously expected of them.”

Seems to be asking people to just all of the sudden start babbling in hopes of receiving the gift of tongues is rashly seeking the charism.

Grace and Peace

Keith

 

[Jadesfire20]

Hey where is everybody??? Isn’t anyone other than makerteacher going to reply? :crying: