Charity while discussing apologetics

[travissbeloved]

Recently I got into a bit of a heated debate with someone on here who is Catholic and this person just was not willing to accept what I was saying was the truth. I pointed it out in the catechism but he then decided he no longer wanted to be Catholic if that’s what Catholics believe. Now I feel very bad about it. I would never want to direct someone AWAY from Catholicism. As a parish Director of Religious Education I strive to help people become closer to Jesus and the Catholic Church. So my question is this. If someone simply doesn’t like the truth…do we push it? Or do we just kind of give in to what they’re saying? I kept pushing the fact that this certain thing is allowable according to the catechism and that pushed him away from the church but I did not want to speak something that is not true. So what do you do?

 

[Della]

Sounds like he was trying emotionally blackmail you because he didn’t want to accept what the CCC says. Don’t worry about it. This kind of thing is on par with a three year old holding his breath until he gets what he wants. Childish behavior if you ask me.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Recently I got into a bit of a heated debate with someone on here who is Catholic and this person just was not willing to accept what I was saying was the truth. I pointed it out in the catechism but he then decided he no longer wanted to be Catholic if that’s what Catholics believe. Now I feel very bad about it. I would never want to direct someone AWAY from Catholicism. As a parish Director of Religious Education I strive to help people become closer to Jesus and the Catholic Church. So my question is this. If someone simply doesn’t like the truth…do we push it? Or do we just kind of give in to what they’re saying? I kept pushing the fact that this certain thing is allowable according to the catechism and that pushed him away from the church but I did not want to speak something that is not true. So what do you do?

Sounds like he is not angry at you but at the Church and its teachings.

You directed that person to the truth; his reaction to it is his responsibility.

However, time will tell…it may be that at some point in the future, he sees that you were correct in sharing the truth faithfully.

Be at peace.

 

[robert_chacon]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there seems to be a number of “trolls” on this site who pretend to be Catholic only to spout confusion if not heretical notions. Anyone who’s faith is that precarious that they say they are leaving the Church after a discussion with you is either mentally unstable to begin with, or simply a fake.

All we can do is pray for forgiveness if we somehow there was something we did wrong and pray for the soul of this person. Otherwise, dont worry!

God bless for your concern!

 

[travissbeloved]

Thank you everyone for your kind responses. They help me to be at peace.

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Recently I got into a bit of a heated debate with someone on here who is Catholic and this person just was not willing to accept what I was saying was the truth. I pointed it out in the catechism but he then decided he no longer wanted to be Catholic if that’s what Catholics believe. Now I feel very bad about it. I would never want to direct someone AWAY from Catholicism. As a parish Director of Religious Education I strive to help people become closer to Jesus and the Catholic Church. So my question is this. If someone simply doesn’t like the truth…do we push it? Or do we just kind of give in to what they’re saying? I kept pushing the fact that this certain thing is allowable according to the catechism and that pushed him away from the church but I did not want to speak something that is not true. So what do you do?

I am not aware of the discussion, but if what you say is true, and assuming you followed 1Pe3:15, especially the last phrase, then it may be a case where this person might be better off re-examining his beliefs. Their beliefs, their faith, may have been grounded in rocky soil.

As an example, our Lord taught the Truth straight-out in John 6. Though, sadly, many disciples left, He still maintained the Truth.

Pray that they may be led back to the Church through the intercession of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Recently I got into a bit of a heated debate with someone on here who is Catholic and this person just was not willing to accept what I was saying was the truth. I pointed it out in the catechism but he then decided he no longer wanted to be Catholic if that’s what Catholics believe. Now I feel very bad about it. I would never want to direct someone AWAY from Catholicism. As a parish Director of Religious Education I strive to help people become closer to Jesus and the Catholic Church. So my question is this. If someone simply doesn’t like the truth…do we push it? Or do we just kind of give in to what they’re saying? I kept pushing the fact that this certain thing is allowable according to the catechism and that pushed him away from the church but I did not want to speak something that is not true. So what do you do?

Unless it was your intention to drive this person away from the faith, I don’t see how this is a sin.

Frankly, there’s a lot of people out there (and on here, unfortunately) whose loyalty is elsewhere (ie looking good, tolerant and educated, the Democrat Party, money, saving face at Thanksgiving dinner while complaining on here) than to God and His Church.

Listen, when someone threatens to leave the Church, basically what they are saying is “The Church should change and be the way I want it, not the way God wants it”.

If you talk to the person long enough about it, eventually, you’ll come down either outright ignorance of Catholic teaching or someone who is being selfish.

The other thing to remember: If you’re going to preach the Truth, people WILL reject it----even some of your fellow Catholics. Just look at all the people who rejected Jesus. All He did was tell the Truth and He was killed for it.

You’d be amazed: sometimes, the strongest resistance to Catholic teaching in some cases come from other Catholics.

 

[spina1953]

As they say. you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. All one can do is point out the truth but you can’t make someone believe the truth if they do not want to. God knows your intention. You can bless someone but if they do not accept it it comes back to you as a blessing from the Lord. Do not worry, you did your best to help that person to see what the truth you were pointing out and that person refused to believe it was the truth you gave from the CCC.

 

[fred_conty]

Sometimes it takes a person a while to work thru a new thought. They just need to consider it over coffee. However the question is, do we need the last word? Once the truth has been stated, I feel the answer is no in most cases.

May God our Father give you grace and peace.

 

[AbideWithMe]

As they say. you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. All one can do is point out the truth but you can’t make someone believe the truth if they do not want to. God knows your intention. You can bless someone but if they do not accept it it comes back to you as a blessing from the Lord. Do not worry, you did your best to help that person to see what the truth you were pointing out and that person refused to believe it was the truth you gave from the CCC.

Speaking of leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink…Travissbeloved, is this thread referring to the one where a you and another Catholic who had converted from being a Mormon were arguing over drinking alcohol? If so, I think there was some unnecessary rudeness on both sides. That thread was nobody’s finest hour. I didn’t see it past mid-morning yesterday, but I noticed it was pulled at some point before evening.

It’s unfortunate if the other poster said he felt he couldn’t remain a Catholic. I am sure, from reading most of the thread, that in his stance against alcohol consumption he was following his conscience, his experience as a lawyer working on drunk-driving cases as he stated, and possibly his Mormon upbringing.

As I noted on that thread, there used to be several strong Catholic temperance movements. So, in my opinion, there seems to be room within Catholicism for those whose conscience and reason are against alcohol use, as was the case with the poster who I’m guessing you’re talking about. I don’t see why people shouldn’t be allowed, as was the case in the past, to discuss and even argue the merits of alcohol use, temperance, or abstinence. Rudeness and disrespect from any side should not be practiced, however, as happened on that thread from both sides. If people can’t be respectful, you can always disengage from the discussion and let them have the last word, as Fred said.

 

[spina1953]

I am not sure if you are directing your comment to me or to Travissbeloved. I was only responding to travissbeloed’s post. Its sad when someone refusses to believe the truth when it is pointed out. More sad when that person says that he or she no longer wants to be Catholic. The saddest part is so few Catholic’s are not being taught our faith, and sadly many Catholic’s are only Catholic’s in name only. In the end, all one can do is pray for them that God will enlighten them to the faith that has been given to them. I am not sure what thread you were referring to. Personally, I do not feel that forcing an argument to convience someone of what we as Catholic’s believe. Debating diffences and one’s lack of knowledge of what one believes or explaining what we believe so that the one we are debating with might come to an understanding of what we as Catholic’s believe is the better part. However, that being said, a lot has to do with how we present our agruments and thoughts to another and one should never be rude or disrespectful to the person or persons we are debating any issue with. Diologue only works when one is respectful of the others feelings and understanding of the issue at hand.

 

[travissbeloved]

Speaking of leading a horse to water but not being able to make it drink…Travissbeloved, is this thread referring to the one where a you and another Catholic who had converted from being a Mormon were arguing over drinking alcohol? If so, I think there was some unnecessary rudeness on both sides. That thread was nobody’s finest hour. I didn’t see it past mid-morning yesterday, but I noticed it was pulled at some point before evening.

It’s unfortunate if the other poster said he felt he couldn’t remain a Catholic. I am sure, from reading most of the thread, that in his stance against alcohol consumption he was following his conscience, his experience as a lawyer working on drunk-driving cases as he stated, and possibly his Mormon upbringing.

As I noted on that thread, there used to be several strong Catholic temperance movements. So, in my opinion, there seems to be room within Catholicism for those whose conscience and reason are against alcohol use, as was the case with the poster who I’m guessing you’re talking about. I don’t see why people shouldn’t be allowed, as was the case in the past, to discuss and even argue the merits of alcohol use, temperance, or abstinence. Rudeness and disrespect from any side should not be practiced, however, as happened on that thread from both sides. If people can’t be respectful, you can always disengage from the discussion and let them have the last word, as Fred said.

I would just like to say that I do not feel that I was being rude to him at all. I pointed out that he was being quite rude and judgmental but maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up at all. I didn’t appreciate being called names, etc over the subject matter and I just wanted to point out that he was not being nice but maybe it wasn’t my place to point that out.

 

[Della]

I would just like to say that I do not feel that I was being rude to him at all. I pointed out that he was being quite rude and judgmental but maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up at all. I didn’t appreciate being called names, etc over the subject matter and I just wanted to point out that he was not being nice but maybe it wasn’t my place to point that out.

Yeah, when that happens to me I just report the posts to the moderator and let it be dealt with through official channels. I know how frustrating it can be when someone behaves badly, but they probably wouldn’t care that they were being rude if they don’t mind posting rude, insulting comments on a public forum, so telling them they’re rude is usually a waste of time.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I would just like to say that I do not feel that I was being rude to him at all. I pointed out that he was being quite rude and judgmental but maybe I shouldn’t have brought that up at all. I didn’t appreciate being called names, etc over the subject matter and I just wanted to point out that he was not being nice but maybe it wasn’t my place to point that out.

IMO, we sometimes don’t realize when we’re stepping on each other’s toes, particularly when each party firmly believes they are on the side of truth.

I didn’t see the end of the thread. At one point, though, I did see you post that you were bowing out, but then he posted again and you got back into the argument that was already going nowhere. I think if you had stuck with stepping out, the thread would have quickly ended.

I’m offering my viewpoint as someone who was on that thread, because you asked for feedback. I don’t mean to be offensive myself, Travissbeloved, so I hope this isn’t coming across that way. I’m not a Catholic, but, ISTM that on thorny issues of conscience such as the drinking/non-drinking subject of the thread, it’s better to suggest you each talk to your respective priests if you can’t agree. The other poster is under the pastoral care of his spiritual leaders, not strangers on the internet. ISTM that sometimes Catholics here use the CCC as a club to bash each other over the head, but, unless I’m mistaken, the CCC was written for primarily for bishops, and it still requires some interpretation; each person’s pastor is responsible for the care of those in his flock, so conflicts can be referred back to a pastor who is charged with the well fare of his parishioners whom he knows in person.