Chaste Marriages

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Ag_not

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This question was inspired by reading a thread on Mary and Joseph.

I can understand marriage.

I can understand co habitation.

I can understand people chosing to remain single and secular.

I can understand single people taking a vow of chastity.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand two single people getting married and chosing to remain chaste within that marriage.

Note - Im not talking about Mary and Joseph here - rather the concept of marrying but staying chaste, not having children, and never having sex.

I cannot fathom that one out at all 🤷
 
The purpose of a Catholic marriage is to have a family, if it’s God’s will to allow the couple to have children. I don’t believe a “chaste marriage” fits the definition of a Catholic marriage.
 
Ag_not said:
This question was inspired by reading a thread on Mary and Joseph.

I can understand marriage.

I can understand co habitation.

I can understand people chosing to remain single and secular.

I can understand single people taking a vow of chastity.

I cannot, for the life of me, understand two single people getting married and chosing to remain chaste within that marriage.

Note - Im not talking about Mary and Joseph here - rather the concept of marrying but staying chaste, not having children, and never having sex.

I cannot fathom that one out at all 🤷
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While it would certainly be highly unusual I certainly don’t think it is out of the realm of possibility.
St Paul, in one of his epistles, recommends to people to remain Chaste, but if they cannot that they should marry so as not to be temped to sin. He goes on to say that they should not deny each other except to devote themselves to prayer for a time and then come back together.

However, if we flip this around, why should two people who wish to remain chaste, yet enjoy each others company, not decide to marry for economic or companionship reasons? What should prevent them?

Peace
James
 
I think you may have your terms confused. Chaste living and celibate living - to live without sex is to be celibate.

We are all called to lives of chastity.

**2394 **Christ is the model of chastity. Every baptized person is called to lead a chaste life, each according to his particular state of life.

Married people are required to be chaste.

From the Catechism:

**2362 **“The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude.” Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure: The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.
 
kage_ar said:
I think you may have your terms confused. Chaste living and celibate living - to live without sex is to be celibate.

We are all called to lives of chastity.
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😊 I left my brain in bed today. It was tired so I thought I’d let it sleep in late 😛

Yep celebate is what Im referring to. Apparently it was quite common in the time of Joseph and Mary for couples to get married, but to have also taken a vow of celebacy. Mary was not unusual in that aspect apparently.

So, if Mary had not been called to be the mother of God, she would have married Joseph, but have remained a virgin. Not unusual for the times. It got me wondering, why bother?

But as JRKH said, why not?
 
🙂

Remember, marriage has not always been about romance.

Hard to get our modern minds out of that notion…
 
Ag_not said:
😊 I left my brain in bed today. It was tired so I thought I’d let it sleep in late 😛

Yep celebate is what Im referring to. Apparently it was quite common in the time of Joseph and Mary for couples to get married, but to have also taken a vow of celebacy. Mary was not unusual in that aspect apparently.

So, if Mary had not been called to be the mother of God, she would have married Joseph, but have remained a virgin. Not unusual for the times. It got me wondering, why bother?

But as JRKH said, why not?
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Celebacy was common for devout Jewish married couples like Mary and Joseph? Are you sure about this information?

God Bless!
 
kage_ar said:
I think you may have your terms confused. Chaste living and celibate living - to live without sex is to be celibate.

We are all called to lives of chastity.

**2394 **Christ is the model of chastity. Every baptized person is called to lead a chaste life, each according to his particular state of life.

Married people are required to be chaste.

From the Catechism:

**2362 **“The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude.” Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure: The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.
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Celibate is not quite right either IMO.
While celibacy can be used to mean “abstention from sexual intercourse,” that is a secondary meaning and the more common primary meaning is “the state of not having a spouse : single life” and so cannot be an attribute of a marriage by definition…

How about “abstention”? That is the concept at issue here, correct?
 
No sex within a marriage is not a marriage.

There of course is the exception if one or both of the spouses becomes ill or unable to, but that has to be after the marriage begins. (they already consumated it, even if only once)

But to begin the marriage with the idea of never consumating it makes it an invalid marriage.
 
tiemry said:
No sex within a marriage is not a marriage.

There of course is the exception if one or both of the spouses becomes ill or unable to, but that has to be after the marriage begins. (they already consumated it, even if only once)

But to begin the marriage with the idea of never consumating it makes it an invalid marriage.
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You might want to do some investigation in to Josephite Marriage

jimmyakin.org/2005/07/marys_marriage.html
 
tiemry said:
forgive me for my ignorance, but isn’t an unconsumated marriage (not having children) a reason for an annulment in the Catholic Church.

(I’m not Catholic, I don’t know)
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Jimmy Akin is WAY smarter than me - I’d suggest you read the article on his blog.

Having or not having children does not impact the validity of a marriage. One can have children with a stranger.
 
kage_ar said:
Jimmy Akin is WAY smarter than me - I’d suggest you read the article on his blog.

Having or not having children does not impact the validity of a marriage. One can have children with a stranger.
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thanks, I read the article. Although I do not agree, it was very interesting.

I know a person can have a child with a stranger. But except in the case of rape, it is a sin.
But marriage is a whole other story. One man, one woman and to accept the gifts of marriage which is intimacy and of course, children, if that is God’s plan for the couple.

To eliminate that part simply comes down to two good friends living together, very close friends, yes, but certainly not marriage as God intended.
 
Marriage is for two persons of opposite sex living together to form a family. To my understanding this is the plan of God.

Now, no one can be both celibate and married, these are two contradictory terms. However one can be married and decide not to have sex. This does not mean celibacy.

I think for these people, sex is meant to make childreen. So they try to live according to this simple purpose. If they don’t want childreen they just don’t have sex.

On the other hand, they may decide to raise other childreen and provide them with a home of a mother and a father. This would be a case of helping olphans for example. And for this reason they can maybe just make decision never to have sex, meaning never to have childreen of their own…

All these cases are examples of couple trying to live perfect chaste life.

I think it is important not to think that these couples don’t have intimacy just because they don’t have sex. I feel that sexual energy is just redirected toward a higher spiritual intimacy and bond with each other and with God.

I believe that we are all called to live chaste lives even in marriage. We can see how this self-control can be helpful in strengthening the marriage. It provide more patience and trust in spouses.
For those who want to have childreen, it can give them enough power and peace in giving desired succession between childreen. Or not having any more if a woman’s life could be put to risk, or if economic situations are not good for the family.
So conjugual sex have to really take into account the whole family situation. Not just the spouses. And the couple can feel more freedom and love in purposly abstaining from the sexual act until ready for an other child…

In these marriages we can also see that God truly does not intend cruel hardships for catholic families.
 
Here’s my ideal marriage –
A one-bedroom house. He has half the bedroom and I have he other half. We also have a little office, also divided. We use room dividers, heavy duty ones, in both rooms.
We don’t have sex.
We cuddle while watching movies or falling asleep sitting on the couch.
We exercise a lot and read a lot.
When we are ready for a child we adopt one. To help get ready for the faster-paced life of a house full of youth, we adopt a puppy and two kittens first. When they’re grown up we adopt a child, whom we teach to be nice to the animals from the beginning, as I was taught.
During the waiting period we get out of our systems all the stuff you can’t do as a parent, such as keeping the house smelling nice and sleeping in and jogging at night on the spur of the moment and reading a whole novel in one sitting. Stuff like that.
It’s not going to happen. But I don’t see anything wrong with it.🤷
 
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