C
chevalier
Guest
How to explain to a Protestant that it’s not true that everything is right so long as there’s no intercourse?
Generally, the Protestant’s points are that thoughts aren’t sinful if you don’t act on them. My point is that there’s a difference between having uninvited thoughts (which is already problematic if they are a result of consensual behaviour between a male and a female) and exercising such thoughts.
After all, as per Matt 18 (IIRC), you already commit adultery in your heart if you look upon a woman to lust for her. It seems that fornication would have to entail the same (depending whether we put stress on one or both persons involved being married to someone else or on lusting). I’m not claiming that anything which happens between an unmarried man and woman, is physical, and gives physical pleasure is sexual (actually, hugging or kissing your friend or relative is physical pleasure and it’s hardly sexual), but something that is done to make someone horny or is done because someone is horny, seems to be sexual in nature.
If sexual in nature, it shouldn’t happen between unmarried people or it’s a sin of the flesh committed in the heart.
I’m hardly a bigot. I don’t necessarily have a problem with problem with people hugging, kissing, not asking the other to leave when they are changing clothes, getting mushy and cuddling etc, but some things just can’t seem to be non-sexual. I don’t see how e.g. touching someone’s genital parts “for fun” can be anything else than sexual and I don’t understand how people could have a need to touch or stroke exactly there, other than a sexual need. Or when people start getting even a little physical just because they feel “horny” or they want to be turned on a bit. How can this not be sexual?
I mean, romantic hugging and kissing is still physical and pleasurable, but it isn’t really sexual and it doesn’t connect with “horniness”. But when “horniness” comes into play…
Protestants seem to believe that masturbation is OK if you don’t do it for pleasure but to release tension. They also tend to think that thoughts can’t be sinful and there’s no sin if you don’t act on it, no matter at all what you think. And that stopping short of intercourse (some include oral, although stimulation with hands is not typically included) does the job.
I think it’s about attitude. You can go skinny dipping together or cuddle up for sleep and not sin in it, with the proper mindset, but you can still just look on each other and sin even without touching - depending on what your mental processes look like. (Notwithstanding the fact that, apart from extraordinary cases of caring for the sick or wounded, or medical examination or fighting, I can’t really imagine how touching someone’s genitals can be anything else than sinful)
How to explain this to a Protestant? I could handle a pastor or theologian, but this one is a believer, taking faith seriously not familiar with theological nuances. I will also be thankful for pointing out mistakes in my reasoning, if there are any.
Generally, the Protestant’s points are that thoughts aren’t sinful if you don’t act on them. My point is that there’s a difference between having uninvited thoughts (which is already problematic if they are a result of consensual behaviour between a male and a female) and exercising such thoughts.
After all, as per Matt 18 (IIRC), you already commit adultery in your heart if you look upon a woman to lust for her. It seems that fornication would have to entail the same (depending whether we put stress on one or both persons involved being married to someone else or on lusting). I’m not claiming that anything which happens between an unmarried man and woman, is physical, and gives physical pleasure is sexual (actually, hugging or kissing your friend or relative is physical pleasure and it’s hardly sexual), but something that is done to make someone horny or is done because someone is horny, seems to be sexual in nature.
If sexual in nature, it shouldn’t happen between unmarried people or it’s a sin of the flesh committed in the heart.
I’m hardly a bigot. I don’t necessarily have a problem with problem with people hugging, kissing, not asking the other to leave when they are changing clothes, getting mushy and cuddling etc, but some things just can’t seem to be non-sexual. I don’t see how e.g. touching someone’s genital parts “for fun” can be anything else than sexual and I don’t understand how people could have a need to touch or stroke exactly there, other than a sexual need. Or when people start getting even a little physical just because they feel “horny” or they want to be turned on a bit. How can this not be sexual?
I mean, romantic hugging and kissing is still physical and pleasurable, but it isn’t really sexual and it doesn’t connect with “horniness”. But when “horniness” comes into play…
Protestants seem to believe that masturbation is OK if you don’t do it for pleasure but to release tension. They also tend to think that thoughts can’t be sinful and there’s no sin if you don’t act on it, no matter at all what you think. And that stopping short of intercourse (some include oral, although stimulation with hands is not typically included) does the job.
I think it’s about attitude. You can go skinny dipping together or cuddle up for sleep and not sin in it, with the proper mindset, but you can still just look on each other and sin even without touching - depending on what your mental processes look like. (Notwithstanding the fact that, apart from extraordinary cases of caring for the sick or wounded, or medical examination or fighting, I can’t really imagine how touching someone’s genitals can be anything else than sinful)
How to explain this to a Protestant? I could handle a pastor or theologian, but this one is a believer, taking faith seriously not familiar with theological nuances. I will also be thankful for pointing out mistakes in my reasoning, if there are any.
