Cheating spouse and sexual relations?

[whatevergirl]

Exactly. And since seeking a nullity decree in good conscience means you believe the marriage is invalid, one shouldn’t have sex when seeking a nullity decree.

I have often wondered if people come to a conclusion that their marriage is not valid when cheating occurs. If there were no cheating, in some cases…would people be seeking divorce, and then actively seeking annulments? I guess my question is…does the RCC view all cases of adultery in marriages, as grounds for considering the marriage ‘invalid?’ I mean, anyone could say…I had no idea what I was doing ‘x’ years ago…because he/she is hurt from the affair. Know what I mean? My hat is off to our Church who has to wrestle with these issues…thankfully, the Holy Spirit is providing the insight…but it has to be hard.

 

[kristacecilia]

Become a lawyer. Seriously.

Nah, I am already an unemployed biologist/stay-at-home mom by choice. :extrahappy:

(At least, I am assuming this comment was directed at me?)

 

[kristacecilia]

Some people go into “marriage” with such a jaded notion of sexuality that they are incapable of giving a real and valid consent. That is the kind of the thing the Church examines during a petition of nullity. How soon before or during or after the exchange of vows did the adultery occur? Was the adultery with a person the party had relations with before the marriage? Was there a long-term relationship that spanned the dating and courtship and wedding with someone else?

How often and how many people had the offending spouse had relations with before and during the courtship? A lot of this is about psychological capacity and emotional maturity.

Right on.

I really think that one of the reasons for the increase of declarations of nullity being offered in modern times is because of the lack of teaching and respect for marriage.

It all goes back to poor instruction on Church teaching. Parents are so important… teach your children exactly what the Church teaches, why it teaches it, and then model it in your lives (in as much as you are able). Then just pray and hope for the best, I guess.

 

[Feanaro_s_Wife]

Liz, don’t know if this sheds any light on your particular issues. But the solution to your angst isn’t less Church rules, it’s more people living as Christ directed them to live.

**Well said:thumbsup:

Malia**

 

[chevalier]

I have often wondered if people come to a conclusion that their marriage is not valid when cheating occurs. If there were no cheating, in some cases…would people be seeking divorce, and then actively seeking annulments? I guess my question is…does the RCC view all cases of adultery in marriages, as grounds for considering the marriage ‘invalid?’

Only as indicators. One canonist where I live has recently written a whole book about the role of infidelity in nullity proceedings, but I haven’t been able to read it yet.

I believe regarding a case of adultery automatically as an indicator of invalidity would be a presumption. That presumption would be contrary to the presumption of validity of marriage. That’s why I believe it can’t happen. And I believe most canon lawyers believe like I do.

I believe marriage is certainly not invalid on the grounds that woah, the husband or wife proved himself or herself capable of cheating. Aren’t we all? Who knows how the person was tempted? How much would we need? Are we better or was the temptation lighter? There’s pretty much only one way of finding out and I’d rather it didn’t happen.

I would say that compulsive cheating, however, or cheating as a form of sport, an adventure, may be a personality dysfunction falling under canon 1095, or might be a sign of a lack of understanding of marriage and/or, in some cases, of simulation of marital consent (as regards fidelity - exclusio boni fidei). Perhaps in some cases, a sign of immaturity.

I mean, anyone could say…I had no idea what I was doing ‘x’ years ago…because he/she is hurt from the affair. Know what I mean?

Yup. Paradoxically, that attitude might well be a sign of invalidity on the part of the “innocent” spouse. Before I get flamed, regarding cheating as the ending point of marriage may be a sign of disagreement with the Church on a couple of aspects of marriage. I’m not talking about desperate reactions of deeply hurt people, but about situations in which someone has a different definition of marriage than the Church does.

My hat is off to our Church who has to wrestle with these issues…thankfully, the Holy Spirit is providing the insight…but it has to be hard.

Indeed.

 

[chevalier]

(At least, I am assuming this comment was directed at me?)

Yes, it was. I’m in this line of work (civil, not canon) and I wish most lawyers were able to write like that.

 

[kristacecilia]

Yes, it was. I’m in this line of work (civil, not canon) and I wish most lawyers were able to write like that.

I thank you for the compliment. It must be that fantastic Franciscan University of Steubenville education I received (even though I majored in biology and chemistry).

 

[kristacecilia]

whatevergirl:

I have often wondered if people come to a conclusion that their marriage is not valid when cheating occurs. If there were no cheating, in some cases…would people be seeking divorce, and then actively seeking annulments? I guess my question is…does the RCC view all cases of adultery in marriages, as grounds for considering the marriage ‘invalid?’ I mean, anyone could say…I had no idea what I was doing ‘x’ years ago…because he/she is hurt from the affair. Know what I mean?

chevalier:

I believe regarding a case of adultery automatically as an indicator of invalidity would be a presumption. That presumption would be contrary to the presumption of validity of marriage. That’s why I believe it can’t happen. And I believe most canon lawyers believe like I do.

I believe marriage is certainly not invalid on the grounds that woah, the husband or wife proved himself or herself capable of cheating. Aren’t we all? Who knows how the person was tempted? How much would we need? Are we better or was the temptation lighter? There’s pretty much only one way of finding out and I’d rather it didn’t happen.

I would say that compulsive cheating, however, or cheating as a form of sport, an adventure, may be a personality dysfunction falling under canon 1095, or might be a sign of a lack of understanding of marriage and/or, in some cases, of simulation of marital consent (as regards fidelity - exclusio boni fidei). Perhaps in some cases, a sign of immaturity.

Exactly.

So let’s say Mr. and Mrs. Doe are married. At the time of their marriage they enter the union with free consent, will, and full understanding of their duties as a married couple, including the understanding that they will be faithful to their spouse until death. They have every intention of welcoming children into their family, no intention of using birth control, and plan on educating all their children in the faith. Let’s assume that their marriage is completely valid at the time of the wedding.

About 15 years later Mr. Doe has an affair. Mr. and Mrs. Doe get a divorce and one or both parties file for a declaration of nullity. The Tribunal, in this case, would deny the declaration (remember, we have assumed that their marriage is completely valid for this example). In the eyes of God Mr. and Mrs. Doe have been married since their wedding. They will remain married until one or both parties dies. If either party dates or remarries it would be adultry against the other party. If either party was dating or did “remarry”, they would be barred from receiving most sacraments until the situation was rectified and they had received a valid absolution following a thorough confession.

A second example. Mr. and Mrs. Smith marry. Mrs. Smith has a history of premarital sex with Mr. Smith and other men. Mrs. Smith has an incomplete understanding of monogomy and faithfulness. Even if they meet all the other requirements for marriage (see example above), this marriage would be invaild because of Mrs. Smith’s lack of complete understanding for the duties and obligations of marriage.

So 5 years after the wedding Mrs. Smith has an affair; the couple divorces. They file for a declaration from the Church. After the tribunal investigates, the deem the marriage null based on Mrs. Smith’s ignorance of faithfulness. In the eyes of God and the eyes of the Church this marriage never occured. The two parties are free to date and marry because they have *never previously been married. *

whatevergirl:

My hat is off to our Church who has to wrestle with these issues…thankfully, the Holy Spirit is providing the insight…but it has to be hard.

Amen!

Our pastor is on the tribunal for our diocese. I am so thankful that he is such a wonderful, orthodox priest. I can’t imagine the sort of stress that goes into examining and making rulings on peoples’ lives like that.

 

[chevalier]

I thank you for the compliment. It must be that fantastic Franciscan University of Steubenville education I received (even though I majored in biology and chemistry).

It shows. I hope you write an article or two every some time so that the pen stays fit.

Our pastor is on the tribunal for our diocese. I am so thankful that he is such a wonderful, orthodox priest. I can’t imagine the sort of stress that goes into examining and making rulings on peoples’ lives like that.

I just dread the claim-winning approach sometimes displayed. It’s one thing if one wins a million bucks in a contract lawsuit and a completely different one when the claim regards the validity of a sacramental marriage.