Check this out: Not in our back yard

  • Thread starter Thread starter BayCityRickL
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
B

BayCityRickL

Guest
In the church bulletin of St. Hyacinth Church, Bay City Michigan for 9/25/05, there is the following entry:

“…At the March 15th Parish Council meeting [deleted]
Realty approached the council to offer the house and
property at 1517 Cass next to the rectory for sale.
There was a concern that if we did not buy the
property, who would buy it People who would not keep
it up? People who would park junk cars? Drug dealers?
The assessed value was $70,000. The parish offered
$60,000 and it was accepted. An initial purchase
agreement was signed pending the approval of the
diocese. The Administration commission inspected the
house and realized it would be too expensive to fix up
so either it had to be torn down or moved. To save us
the expense of tearing it down an agreement was made
with a party ] to remove the house, trees
and bushes, fill in the hole, and plant grass seed at
no cost to the parish. In April the [Saginaw] diocese approved and $40,200 was loaned to the parish…In the future
the property can be used for additional parking. The
house will be moved down the street about four houses
to the East. It will be moved soon.”

In Bay City, a $60,000 home would be one of the most affordable, with a nice yard and garage. But, the parish did not want the “least” of Jesus’ brethren moving in, heaven forbid. No way. Get the diocese involved, for sure, to make sure that no undesireable people move in there !! This is the attitude of the Church towards the poor, where the rubber meets the road.

Shame, shame.

The junk cars and dilapidated house and drug dealers can move in down the street, but heavens ! not next to our lily white hypocritical church, no way !!
 
Aren’t you being too hard on the parish? They want the property for some much needed parking space. And they aren’t going to tear the house down, but move it to another location where a family will be able to buy it and have a nice house. Sounds charitable as well as sensible to me.

That some people had a concern about a crack house right next door to the rectory is a legitimate concern. As for keeping out poor people, I don’t see any evidence of that. Not all people who keep rusted-out cars parked in their front yards are poor, socially clueless maybe, but not necessarily poor.
 
40.png
Della:
Aren’t you being too hard on the parish? They want the property for some much needed parking space. And they aren’t going to tear the house down, but move it to another location where a family will be able to buy it and have a nice house. Sounds charitable as well as sensible to me.

That some people had a concern about a crack house right next door to the rectory is a legitimate concern. As for keeping out poor people, I don’t see any evidence of that. Not all people who keep rusted-out cars parked in their front yards are poor, socially clueless maybe, but not necessarily poor.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t say they need parking now, it says they may use it for that purpose in the future. Now they are going to plant grass seed. The people they are trying to keep out are the ones who need them most (whether they need it or not). It sets a pretty bad example. What would Mother Teresa say?
 
40.png
koda:
It doesn’t say they need parking now, it says they may use it for that purpose in the future. Now they are going to plant grass seed. The people they are trying to keep out are the ones who need them most (whether they need it or not). It sets a pretty bad example. What would Mother Teresa say?
Click to expand...
Mother Teresa has nothing to do with it, since she is not responsible in this particular case for the safety of those coming to and from the parish or for the stewardship of this particular parish property. I think the people at the parish know more about this particular situation than we OR Mother Teresa.

Mini rant: Why must we always pick extreme examples when judging others decisions? If it isn’t Mother Teresa, it’s Adolf Hitler. Both have little or nothing to to with the average situations we all face and must make decisions on.
 
40.png
Fidelis:
Mother Teresa has nothing to do with it, since she is not responsible in this particular case for the safety of those coming to and from the parish or for the stewardship of this particular parish property. I think the people at the parish know more about this particular situation than we OR Mother Teresa.

Mini rant: Why must we always pick extreme examples when judging others decisions? If it isn’t Mother Teresa, it’s Adolf Hitler. Both have little or nothing to to with the average situations we all face and must make decisions on.
Click to expand...
My point was simply that as Christians we are not supposed to insulate our selves from the poor and sinful. That, indeed, this is where we need to be. As for Mother Terese, I mentioned her because she is a saint and most people realize that and would like to emulate saint-like behaviour. I have seen plenty of big fancy churchs in my life (not all Catholic by any means) that would have been scandalized had some poorly dressed or bad smelling individual dared cross their threshold. True, I don’t know anything about this particular parish but churchs should not seek to avoid the undesirables at all - it directly contradicts what we are all about. I would also like to add that there is generally a real shortage of affordable houseing in the U.S. for those with low incomes. Perhaps a needy family would have bought the house and fixed it up as they were able. But thanks to the desire of the parish officials, they weren’t given that chance. :mad:
 
40.png
koda:
My point was simply that as Christians we are not supposed to insulate our selves from the poor and sinful. That, indeed, this is where we need to be. As for Mother Terese, I mentioned her because she is a saint and most people realize that and would like to emulate saint-like behaviour. I have seen plenty of big fancy churchs in my life (not all Catholic by any means) that would have been scandalized had some poorly dressed or bad smelling individual dared cross their threshold. True, I don’t know anything about this particular parish but churchs should not seek to avoid the undesirables at all - it directly contradicts what we are all about. I would also like to add that there is generally a real shortage of affordable houseing in the U.S. for those with low incomes. Perhaps a needy family would have bought the house and fixed it up as they were able. But thanks to the desire of the parish officials, they weren’t given that chance. :mad:
Click to expand...
I still don’t think your accusation, made without really knowing this parish, as you readily admit, holds true in this case.

Firstly, they are not destroying the house, as I pointed out before, but are merely moving the thing. After all, as I also pointed out before, they could have simply destroyed the house but chose to move it so it could be occupied by a family.

And secondly, to paint every seemingly well off parish with such a large brush is a form of snobbery of a different kind. You can’t assume this parish or any other wouldn’t let poorly dressed or smelly people through the doors. What evidence do you have to make that accusation besides not approving of one parish’s handling of their own property?

You know, we ought to be concerned first of all with the plank in our own eye before going after the splinter in our brother’s eye. If you don’t know the situation any better than you do, you have no right to determine if this parish is using their property charitably or wisely or whatever, now do you?
 
40.png
BayCityRickL:
In the church bulletin of St. Hyacinth Church, Bay City Michigan for 9/25/05, there is the following entry:

“…At the March 15th Parish Council meeting [deleted]
Realty approached the council to offer the house and
property at 1517 Cass next to the rectory for sale.
There was a concern that if we did not buy the
property, who would buy it People who would not keep
it up? People who would park junk cars? Drug dealers?
The assessed value was $70,000. The parish offered
$60,000 and it was accepted. An initial purchase
agreement was signed pending the approval of the
diocese. The Administration commission inspected the
house and realized it would be too expensive to fix up
so either it had to be torn down or moved. To save us
the expense of tearing it down an agreement was made
with a party ] to remove the house, trees
and bushes, fill in the hole, and plant grass seed at
no cost to the parish. In April the [Saginaw] diocese approved and $40,200 was loaned to the parish…In the future
the property can be used for additional parking. The
house will be moved down the street about four houses
to the East. It will be moved soon.”

In Bay City, a $60,000 home would be one of the most affordable, with a nice yard and garage. But, the parish did not want the “least” of Jesus’ brethren moving in, heaven forbid. No way. Get the diocese involved, for sure, to make sure that no undesireable people move in there !! This is the attitude of the Church towards the poor, where the rubber meets the road.

Shame, shame.

The junk cars and dilapidated house and drug dealers can move in down the street, but heavens ! not next to our lily white hypocritical church, no way !!
Click to expand...
Della: I appreicate your point and reiterate that I do not know all the details. But from the details in the OP from the Chruch’s own bulletin (they don’t appear to be trying to hide their real motives), there is ample evidence from which to draw this conclusion. It is pretty clear that the church was concerned about their property values dropping as they did not want someone who would not “keep it up” or might part a “junk car” there. Do you not feel that this is a pretty superficial position to take, especially for a churc. The house was moved - this is expensive. Thus, it is most likely not going to house a low income family.
 
40.png
koda:
My point was simply that as Christians we are not supposed to insulate our selves from the poor and sinful.
:mad:
Click to expand...
There are alot of reasons to insulate. The safety of my family for one. Your point would be good on a home schooling thread.
 
And you assume that “poor people” would be the only ones to buy the property. Anyone would have been free to buy it, and do whatever with it. Sounds like a great house to buy and turn around and make a great profit renting it (but don’t fix it up, of course, too expensive,) so that some family can live for way too much rent in substandard housing. That would be of great benefit to the poor. Or perhaps a crack house would be a good thing for young children to watch from the church steps while their parents visit with other parishioners (as long as the shooting is only at night).
Yes, of course I am speculating, but not any more than the OP.

And of course, St. Hyancinth’'s doesn’t let poor people into the church, and does not contribute alms,…

I think the OP made many assumptions that were uncharitable.
 
To clarify one point about my original post, the parish has ACRES of vacant land adjacent to the church. In recent history, the diocese has demolished a three-story convent with chapel, and it demolished a four-story school building.

Graphically, the is the shape of the land the church owns, and X marks the spot where the house is located:
Code: 
                                                                          |    x   |
         building ]           parking lot                         |         |
                                                                          -----------
                                                                                     |
                                                                                     |
                                                                                     |
                                 parking lot                            rec-  |
                                                                          |   to-   |
                                                                          |   ry    |
            Land                           Land                     -----------

                                  5-car garage                       c     ]
                                                                           h     ]
                                                                           u     ]
                                                                           r      ]
                                                                           c     ]
                                                                           h     ]
            Land                           Land                                |
The house and lot which were purchased had stood there BEFORE the current church and rectory were built. So, it is the
case that the people there had to put up with the comings and
goings in the parking lot all time time. What a headache that
MIGHT have been. It’s not like it was a nice quiet neighborhood
with respect to them. In fact, it seemed to work out well, as there was not even a fence around the private property.

This house would be in the category of a nice “fixer upper” with a lot of possibility, for a low-income person.
 
I am assuming the Parish Council members are made up of human beings a.k.a … sinners? Since thier motives (admitted in the bulletin) do seem to be a bit snooty. I would pray for these people instead of condemning the entire parish as hypocritical. Sinful attitudes are always ugly, but moreso when coming from representatives of the parish. Ah …well they will be held accountable. It is sad.
 
You have no idea how many times i felt this way through all of the garbage we went through at our shelter for the New Orleans evacuees, i learned more about people in three weeks than i had in the two years i went to church with them. It was unbelievable. I got into a rather loud argument where i brought this exact issue to the fore front about people fears and prejudices against our guests. i remember using the term “lilywhite rich silver spoon fed spoiled brats who think they are holier than though because they attend mass on sundays and sell cookbooks at the bazaars, but when it comes to getting your hands dirty and working with the sick and poor and homeless OH NO not in our church!” I’m with you here my friend. I finally learned all i can do is pray for them.
40.png
BayCityRickL:
In the church bulletin of St. Hyacinth Church, Bay City Michigan for 9/25/05, there is the following entry:

“…At the March 15th Parish Council meeting [deleted]
Realty approached the council to offer the house and
property at 1517 Cass next to the rectory for sale.
There was a concern that if we did not buy the
property, who would buy it People who would not keep
it up? People who would park junk cars? Drug dealers?
The assessed value was $70,000. The parish offered
$60,000 and it was accepted. An initial purchase
agreement was signed pending the approval of the
diocese. The Administration commission inspected the
house and realized it would be too expensive to fix up
so either it had to be torn down or moved. To save us
the expense of tearing it down an agreement was made
with a party ] to remove the house, trees
and bushes, fill in the hole, and plant grass seed at
no cost to the parish. In April the [Saginaw] diocese approved and $40,200 was loaned to the parish…In the future
the property can be used for additional parking. The
house will be moved down the street about four houses
to the East. It will be moved soon.”

In Bay City, a $60,000 home would be one of the most affordable, with a nice yard and garage. But, the parish did not want the “least” of Jesus’ brethren moving in, heaven forbid. No way. Get the diocese involved, for sure, to make sure that no undesireable people move in there !! This is the attitude of the Church towards the poor, where the rubber meets the road.

Shame, shame.

The junk cars and dilapidated house and drug dealers can move in down the street, but heavens ! not next to our lily white hypocritical church, no way !!
Click to expand...
 
What? so because people are poor and would need affordable housing or own a junker car they are automatically criminals, crack heads and drug dealers?
40.png
geojack:
There are alot of reasons to insulate. The safety of my family for one. Your point would be good on a home schooling thread.
Click to expand...
 
I dont, i think he was dead on. the people that threatened to pull their kids from CCE while our church hosted the people from New Orleans, and the ones who didnt want to break bread with them, the ones who turned up their noses as we had them in mass, and the people who did what they did with this house and those that feel it would be dangerous to have a low income family live next to the church well yall keep sticking your heads in the sand (this is a general “yall” not pointing fingers) because we will all be judged. I would want God to see that i helped my brothers and sisters and tried my best to follow his example. i cant imaging Mary and Jesus sitting on the steps of that church and being terrified of who might move in there, Knowing Them as we do, They would have taken it as an advantage to evangelize, to invite them to Mass and become friends and family with them. Our Bazaar happened last weekend, we had more of the people who were in our shelter (shelter has been closed for two weeks since Rita happened) helping us to serve food to the same people that wanted to kick them out. You never know who a person is just because you see the car they drive and the house they live in. I live in what some people would consider low income apartments for the area i live in. but you know what i am a newlywed full time student who also works full time, we are just getting our life started. and the sad fact of the matter is that the only reason people dont judge me by where i live is because i am a white female. sad but true.
40.png
Catilieth:
And you assume that “poor people” would be the only ones to buy the property. Anyone would have been free to buy it, and do whatever with it. Sounds like a great house to buy and turn around and make a great profit renting it (but don’t fix it up, of course, too expensive,) so that some family can live for way too much rent in substandard housing. That would be of great benefit to the poor. Or perhaps a crack house would be a good thing for young children to watch from the church steps while their parents visit with other parishioners (as long as the shooting is only at night).
Yes, of course I am speculating, but not any more than the OP.

And of course, St. Hyancinth’'s doesn’t let poor people into the church, and does not contribute alms,…

I think the OP made many assumptions that were uncharitable.
Click to expand...
 
I have a little question, it has to do with judging people…
How many of you pick up hitch hikers?
 
Thats very different, I do not because i am a woman and most often driving alone. I have stopped to help people change a tire, offer a phone or jumper cables, but i dont give hitchikers a ride. My husband would be furious if i did. its sad to say that times are too dangerous. I have picked up a hitchiker one time. at the time i carried police issued mace that my godfather gave me. so i kept it hidden between my legs and gave him a ride. I only did because then i lived in a VERY small town, the guy was a stranded biker and it was thunderstorming pretty bad and he was out on a back road, i would have been the only car for miles. and i only felt half way safe because i had that mace. he talked the whole time about his daughters and his bike (i have a Harley sticker on my car) when i got home and told my dad he chewed my butt out. so i havent done it since. But picking up a stranger and driving them around in your car is very different from having a low income family live next door to a church.
 
You judge them to be dangerous…only because they don’t have a ride?..because they are not dressed well?..because they are alone?..why?. If you met them under different circumstances, you would judge them differently.

Everyone here declaring how wrong it is to judge people, but then admit that they won’t pick up hitch hickers because they have judged them to be untrustworthy and dangerous are cases of the pot calling the kettle black.

I’m not saying that you should pick up hitchhikers, I’m only pointing out a double standard.
 
My vehicle is not a church. a church is supposed to welcome people with open arms, im ashamed this happened and these people should be mortified.
 
Oh my dear, YOU ARE the church, the body of Christ. That building is not the body of Christ. It cannot welcome or reject anyone. Only a person can do that. And the double standard has to do with judging.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top