Chewing Meat on Friday?

[Rawb]

I don’t eat meat on Friday, but I’m a Culinary student, and a rule of the kitchen is “You have to try everything”. Normally this is fine, even moreso because I don’t usually have class on Friday. I do sometimes, however, because of a holiday the next week (such as this week; We have Memorial Day off, so we have class tonight).

Well we had a buffet tonight and luckily it was a ‘just take what you want’ deal. Chef said I would really enjoy this one item and I said “I can’t have any, I can’t eat meat on Fridays”. He just grinned and said “Oh? Fish day?” and I nodded. So tonight it was fine but I was wondering, what if this happens again and I have to try it? For vegetarians the Chefs say they have to chew it, taste it, and then they can spit it out, because it is very important to know how something is supposed to taste. Would that be an acceptable alternative? What would the ‘ruling’ have been on this Pre-V II?

The seafood and veggie items in the buffet were great though!

 

[thistle]

I don’t eat meat on Friday, but I’m a Culinary student, and a rule of the kitchen is “You have to try everything”. Normally this is fine, even moreso because I don’t usually have class on Friday. I do sometimes, however, because of a holiday the next week (such as this week; We have Memorial Day off, so we have class tonight).

Well we had a buffet tonight and luckily it was a ‘just take what you want’ deal. Chef said I would really enjoy this one item and I said “I can’t have any, I can’t eat meat on Fridays”. He just grinned and said “Oh? Fish day?” and I nodded. So tonight it was fine but I was wondering, what if this happens again and I have to try it? For vegetarians the Chefs say they have to chew it, taste it, and then they can spit it out, because it is very important to know how something is supposed to taste. Would that be an acceptable alternative? What would the ‘ruling’ have been on this Pre-V II?

The seafood and veggie items in the buffet were great though!

I also don’t eat meat on Fridays but that is the penance I choose because it is NOT mandatory not to eat meat on Fridays outside Lent. Fridays are days of penance and you can choose which penance you want.

Pre or post Vatican II is not relevant as the penance requirements on Fridays is a matter of discipline and not doctrine. Discipline can be changed.

CCC 1438 The seasons and days of penance in the course of the liturgical year (Lent, and each Friday in memory of the death of the Lord) are intense moments of the Church’s penitential practice. These times are particularly appropriate for spiritual exercises, penitential liturgies, pilgrimages as signs of penance, voluntary self-denial such as fasting and almsgiving, and fraternal sharing (charitable and missionary works).

 

[Rawb]

I also don’t eat meat on Fridays but that is the penance I choose because it is NOT mandatory not to eat meat on Fridays outside Lent. Fridays are days of penance and you can choose which penance you want.

I know it’s not mandatory, but it’s the penance I chose. I don’t want to change my penance as it’s convenient each Friday, that seems wrong to me.

Pre or post Vatican II is not relevant as the penance requirements on Fridays is a matter of discipline and not doctrine. Discipline can be changed.

I know this too, I just figured Pre-Vatican II would’ve had a rule I could follow on this, because it was required then.

 

[NMJenny]

Pre-Vatican 2 I expect you would have been able to get a temporary dispensation allowiing you to “taste” meat on Friday, since it was necessary for the course you were taking…

 

[thistle]

I know it’s not mandatory, but it’s the penance I chose. I don’t want to change my penance as it’s convenient each Friday, that seems wrong to me.

I know this too, I just figured Pre-Vatican II would’ve had a rule I could follow on this, because it was required then.

Its not very complicated. You (like me) choose not to eat meat on Fridays but if you somehow are required to eat meat or even if you choose to eat meat you simply do another form of penance that day, like praying the Rosary, for example. You can switch the type of penance for that one day or even do a different form of penance every Friday outside Lent. The Church allows you to choose. Its not a case of choosing one and it can never be changed. It would only be a sin if you did not do any form of penance. Its not a sin to switch.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

I agree with the original poster that changing your penance whenever it’s convenient doesn’t seem right. If you do it only when convenient, it’s not much of a penance, is it?

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how your school would treat a Jew or Muslim who doesn’t eat pork. Do they also have to chew it, or are their religious beliefs accommodated? What happens if you refuse?

 

[Convert_in_99]

I would NOT during lent. :nope: Too much temptation.

During the rest of the year…its fine. For me it would be an even BIGGER sacrifice to start getting that meat flavor and then having to spit it out. But, if you are worried about it, give up something else too…or add a prayer/penance on top of it.

It’s that simple. Good luck with your career.

 

[LilyM]

I agree with the original poster that changing your penance whenever it’s convenient doesn’t seem right. If you do it only when convenient, it’s not much of a penance, is it?

Just out of curiosity, I wonder how your school would treat a Jew or Muslim who doesn’t eat pork. Do they also have to chew it, or are their religious beliefs accommodated? What happens if you refuse?

It’s not just a matter of her own convenience though - it’s a requirement to do with her work and learning and affects others. She’s not eating meat just because she feels like it, rather because it seems to be a requirement of her course. We’re allowed to miss Mass on Sundays if we’re doing necessary work or things like childcare prevent it. And if we need to eat meat for our health we can do that too.

And I have to say, as a restaurant patron I probably would be suspicious of a dish if I knew the chef hadn’t tasted it! How would they know they haven’t put in salt instead of the sugar or a tablespoon of chili powder where a teaspoon would do?

At the same time - just talk it over with your instructor and your priest. This is going to be an issue for you for some time to come I’d imagine, so it’s important to get a clear answer. At least until you have underlings under you to do the tasting for ya.

 

[Rawb]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I’ll probably just chew the meat and spit it out, and probably add another prayer that day. I do see the connection between missing mass and this LilyM. I have wondered what would happen if someone refused to eat pork for religious reasons, but I haven’t asked because I didn’t want to ruffle my Chef’s feathers.

Pssst-btw, I’m male LilyM

 

[LilyM]

Thanks for your responses everyone. I’ll probably just chew the meat and spit it out, and probably add another prayer that day. I do see the connection between missing mass and this LilyM. I have wondered what would happen if someone refused to eat pork for religious reasons, but I haven’t asked because I didn’t want to ruffle my Chef’s feathers.

Pssst-btw, I’m male LilyM

My bad - you’re far too intelligent and articulate-sounding to be your average male

I don’t think your chef is going to get too upset by you simply asking the question.

But I suppose you can just ask your priest if you’d prefer. Best to do it, just for your own peace of mind.

 

[Nick]

Its not a case of choosing one and it can never be changed. It would only be a sin if you did not do any form of penance. Its not a sin to switch.

It would not be a sin to not do any penance on Friday if you live in the United States, though it is highly encouraged that you do some form of penance.

See: Jimmy Akin on Friday penances outside of Lent

 

[thistle]

It would not be a sin to not do any penance on Friday if you live in the United States, though it is highly encouraged that you do some form of penance.

See: Jimmy Akin on Friday penances outside of Lent

I’m British and live in the Philippines and my priest told me it is a sin not to do a penance on Fridays outside Lent.
Somebody must be wrong.
It can’t be a sin in some countries but not in others!
With all due respect to Jimmy Akin, wouldn’t a priest know better than him?

 

[rwoehmke]

I’m British and live in the Philippines and my priest told me it is a sin not to do a penance on Fridays outside Lent.
Somebody must be wrong.
It can’t be a sin in some countries but not in others!
With all due respect to Jimmy Akin, wouldn’t a priest know better than him?

Perhaps the Bishops in the Philippines have taken a different stance on this disciplinary matter than those in the U.S. According to Akin’s interpretation, they could. It has been my experience in the pre-Vatican II times that Bishops could bind under pain of sin if they so desired, but that binding pertained only in their own Diocese(s). I don’t think that ability has been done away with even though it seems rarely used. Bishop B in Nebraska made it an excommuniccatable offense to belong to certain dissident groups, but his ruling did not extend beyond his diocese.

 

[marlo]

there is a place in the philippines that folks can actually eat meat even in Lent. i believe they were granted by the vatican.

thanks
marlo

Perhaps the Bishops in the Philippines have taken a different stance on this disciplinary matter than those in the U.S. According to Akin’s interpretation, they could. It has been my experience in the pre-Vatican II times that Bishops could bind under pain of sin if they so desired, but that binding pertained only in their own Diocese(s). I don’t think that ability has been done away with even though it seems rarely used. Bishop B in Nebraska made it an excommuniccatable offense to belong to certain dissident groups, but his ruling did not extend beyond his diocese.

 

[BobP123]

Don’t know where Atkins gets his information but this is Canon Law:

Can. 1249 All Christ’s faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.

 

[porthos11]

I’m British and live in the Philippines and my priest told me it is a sin not to do a penance on Fridays outside Lent.
Somebody must be wrong.
It can’t be a sin in some countries but not in others!
With all due respect to Jimmy Akin, wouldn’t a priest know better than him?

The Philippine Ordo says thusly:

“On all Fridays of the year, even during Lent, one has the choice of abstaining from meat, or other penances, such as works of mercy and acts of piety.”

So it does seem that in the Philippines, year-long Friday penances are mandatory, under pain of sin. Thing is, it doesn’t have to be abstinence from meat.

As for something being a sin in one place and not in another, it’s this way: intentionally failing a penance on Friday is not the sin per se; it is the disobedience to legitimate Church authority that is sinful. Disobedience is sinful worldwide.

 

[AJV]

I’m British and live in the Philippines and my priest told me it is a sin not to do a penance on Fridays outside Lent.
Somebody must be wrong.
It can’t be a sin in some countries but not in others!
With all due respect to Jimmy Akin, wouldn’t a priest know better than him?

You know thistle, I once went to a Filipino priest for Confession and he told me the same thing. But then this Lent, the bishops letter came out and said very clearly abstinence from meat outside Lent, which may be substituted by another appropriate penance X, X, X,…