Children and mortal sin

[WatchfulPilgrim]

I’ve been wondering about this. I have an 11-year old son. He has been openly deceptive with us lately; saying he is doing a thing that he really isn’t doing. He has been caught serveral times lying to us. We are not mistaken about it - he is openly defiant. I asked him to refrain from his communion today until he is able to go to confession. I was going to take him to confession next Saturday, but then it occurred to me that perhaps he is not remorseful.

Ought I insist he go to confession? Or should I have him refrain from communion every week and pray that he will ask for confession? If he makes a confession ONLY because I have taken him there, then it isn’t even a valid confession b/c he will not be truly repentant.

Thank You~

 

[benedictgal]

I’ve been wondering about this. I have an 11-year old son. He has been openly deceptive with us lately; saying he is doing a thing that he really isn’t doing. He has been caught serveral times lying to us. We are not mistaken about it - he is openly defiant. I asked him to refrain from his communion today until he is able to go to confession. I was going to take him to confession next Saturday, but then it occurred to me that perhaps he is not remorseful.

Ought I insist he go to confession? Or should I have him refrain from communion every week and pray that he will ask for confession? If he makes a confession ONLY because I have taken him there, then it isn’t even a valid confession b/c he will not be truly repentant.

Thank You~

Do you think that there might be something going on at school or at play that might be affecting his behavior? Have you spoken to his teachers to see if he is displaying this kind of behavior in the classroom? I ask this because, even though I do not have children, I think there might be an underlying problem that is manifesting itself in his behavior towards you. You mgiht also want to see who his friends are. Sometimes the friends kids may have could be a bad (or good) influence. If he is in a new group, he might be wanting to fit in and emulate his friends’ behavior. Inasmuch as this is all speculation, these are things you might want to investigate.

I believe that you are acting wisely. He needs to recognize, at an early age, that receiving Holy Communion is not an automatic given. One must be properly disposed to receive Our Lord. Maybe, before you take him to the confessional, you might want to talk to your pastor and let him know what kind of problems you are having. This might help him guide your son. If for some reason you might not be able to get through, maybe your pastor (or whichever priest you talk to about this) might.

 

[Red_Meg]

I’ve been in similar situations with a few of my kids now. The basic routine is this: “It seems you should refrain from going to communion until you’ve gone to confession.” Kid agrees. “Now you have to remember the catch with confession-- it’s not just enough to go through the motions. You have to be truly sorry for what you did, and you have to intend not to do it again. Otherwise, you’re just wasting your time, and disrespecting the Sacrament. I’m heading to Confession tomorrow, and if you’re up for it, you’re welcome to come along.” Here the response varies slightly-- Kid generally comes around and wants to go to Confession. Once or twice, Kid has actually taken the initiative to snag a “spare” priest floating around the back of the church prior to Mass and gotten him to hear Confession on the fly.

Hope this helps?

Margaret

 

[puzzleannie]

I’ve
Ought I insist he go to confession? ~

you ought never to do this, a parent has not right to insist. You do have the obligation to explain, in an objective, not accusatory manner, the reality of confession. It is hard for me to see how an infraction like this could be mortal sin for an 11 year old and thus prevent him from receiving communion. You should make the opportunity to confession available: come on we are going shopping, and will stop at Church so I can go to confession and you will all come in and wait for me, or go to confession if you want.

the issue is not so much one of sin, although there may be some, as one of parent/child battles escalating and a power play going on, which may be resolved by consulting some good parenting books, like DR. Ray. Raising the bar by insisting on confession is not likely to defuse the situation, or be of long term benefit to the child.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’ve been wondering about this. I have an 11-year old son. He has been openly deceptive with us lately; saying he is doing a thing that he really isn’t doing. He has been caught serveral times lying to us. We are not mistaken about it - he is openly defiant. I asked him to refrain from his communion today until he is able to go to confession. I was going to take him to confession next Saturday, but then it occurred to me that perhaps he is not remorseful.

Ought I insist he go to confession? Or should I have him refrain from communion every week and pray that he will ask for confession? If he makes a confession ONLY because I have taken him there, then it isn’t even a valid confession b/c he will not be truly repentant.

Thank You~

Yes you should take him. Once in there, I’m sure Father will not let him off the hook, even though his sins may only be venial at this time. Keeping him away from Holy communion is not a good thing, Confession the following Saturday after he acts this way is necessary.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Thank you, everyone.

benedictgal, I don’t know if he is being negatively influenced. His best friend’s parents are getting a divorce and perhaps he is acting out too. We have always had trouble with this son. His defiance is something escalating. He’s also just getting a bad attitude toward life in general and there is really no need for it. He lives a very comfortable life with lots of family that love him and shower him with love and attention (and things ) - I think sometimes it is overdone and he is spoiled.

Margaret and Annie,

I think that is a good idea - just making confession more available so as not to be accusative.

Br. Rich,

Yes, I don’t want to keep him away from communion. I had second thoughts about even asking him to refrain from reception, but I felt a responsibility to point out to him that it would probably be a sin for him to receive considering his bahavior. I will try to have a heart-to-heart with him this week and see if he will come to confession this coming weekend. Then I will try to make it more available.

I have to admit though, that I’m pretty certain he is going to refuse to go to confession. Or he may agree to it and then complain at the last minute. He has a very hard time admitting when he is wrong and God is far from the first thing in his life. He won’t want to tear himself away from what he’s doing on a Saturday to go to confession.

 

[puzzleannie]

Yes, I don’t want to keep him away from communion. I had second thoughts about even asking him to refrain from reception, but I felt a responsibility to point out to him that it would probably be a sin for him to receive considering his bahavior. I will try to have a heart-to-heart with him this week and see if he will come to confession this coming weekend. Then I will try to make it more available.

I

for one it is for the penitent with the help of the priest to determine if the matter is subjectively mortal sin. I would change the tone of this “heart to heart” from subjective to objective, and make the goal always trying to understand the underlying reason for the defiant behavior in general, and dealing with the real problem, of which this is only a symptom. You won’t be saying “you did a mortal sin and cannot receive” but helping in general with the way we discern mortal sin, the way we come to true contrition through considering the love of Jesus Christ and his suffering on our behalf, the way we grow in seeing the damage our actions do to others (something a child this age simply does not yet have intellectually and developmentally), and the rules for receiving communion.

you may want to begin by just asking non-accusatory questions and really listening. the answers may surprise you. DD hated Mass confession at this age because our old church had smelly carpet, when we changed parishes she had no problem at all.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

for one it is for the penitent with the help of the priest to determine if the matter is subjectively mortal sin. I would change the tone of this “heart to heart” from subjective to objective, and make the goal always trying to understand the underlying reason for the defiant behavior in general, and dealing with the real problem, of which this is only a symptom. You won’t be saying “you did a mortal sin and cannot receive” but helping in general with the way we discern mortal sin, the way we come to true contrition through considering the love of Jesus Christ and his suffering on our behalf, the way we grow in seeing the damage our actions do to others (something a child this age simply does not yet have intellectually and developmentally), and the rules for receiving communion.

you may want to begin by just asking non-accusatory questions and really listening. the answers may surprise you. DD hated Mass confession at this age because our old church had smelly carpet, when we changed parishes she had no problem at all.

Good advice, thank you. I know I get very defensive around him b/c of our differences and that doesn’t help. I know I am partly to blame for his anger.

Btw, we are just making this Saturday a family confession day. Even dh is going - and it has been years for him. Then we can leave the matter in God’s hands. Hopefully the priest can help him work out his problems.

I think we’ll just address the whole family about the rules of communion and let them know that we are probably all in need of a good confession whether we’ve got mortal sins or not.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Thank you, everyone.

benedictgal, I don’t know if he is being negatively influenced. His best friend’s parents are getting a divorce and perhaps he is acting out too. We have always had trouble with this son. His defiance is something escalating. He’s also just getting a bad attitude toward life in general and there is really no need for it. He lives a very comfortable life with lots of family that love him and shower him with love and attention (and things ) - I think sometimes it is overdone and he is spoiled.

Margaret and Annie,

I think that is a good idea - just making confession more available so as not to be accusative.

Br. Rich,

Yes, I don’t want to keep him away from communion. I had second thoughts about even asking him to refrain from reception, but I felt a responsibility to point out to him that it would probably be a sin for him to receive considering his bahavior. I will try to have a heart-to-heart with him this week and see if he will come to confession this coming weekend. Then I will try to make it more available.

I have to admit though, that I’m pretty certain he is going to refuse to go to confession. Or he may agree to it and then complain at the last minute. He has a very hard time admitting when he is wrong and God is far from the first thing in his life. He won’t want to tear himself away from what he’s doing on a Saturday to go to confession.

Too bad. tell him that he is going with you to the Church and has the opportunity for Confession, and that you expect him to make use of it. (if he wants to just sit there for an hour so be it) You are the parent , he has no option in the matter.

As far as Holy Communion goes. Suggest he reflect on his behavior for the last week prior to Communion, maybe every evening would also be good.

 

[benedictgal]

Yes you should take him. Once in there, I’m sure Father will not let him off the hook, even though his sins may only be venial at this time. Keeping him away from Holy communion is not a good thing, Confession the following Saturday after he acts this way is necessary.

That is very sound advice. It reminds me of what my parochial vicar preached on during the Feast of the Holy Family. Parents need to reclaim and reassert their authority. Back when I was a kid, it was enough for my mother to firmly say “Because I said so…” (even though it took some attempts) to get me to stop what I was doing.

The child needs to go to Confession. He needs to understand that what he is doing is wrong. He also needs to understand that there are consequences involved when he sins. Teaching him this early on will, I believe, prevent some bad habits in the long-run.

So long as he is under-age, he is still subject to his parents’ authority. Jesus subjected himself to the authority of the Blessed Mother and St. Joseph. Why should we not expect chlidren to do any less?

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Yes, I believe you are both right. I just thought if he wasn’t remorseful and then started receiving communion that would be bad. But I’ll have to leave that in God’s hands. Better to hope than to avoid it altogether. I’ll try to work on him during the week to prepare him for a good confession - explaining that it is a gift and not a punishment.

Thank You~

 

[Ceil-1]

I agree with Br. Richard. At least he will know he is doing wrong.

There are probably negative influences in his life. Some extra attention for a while, positive attention, may be helpful. This behavior cannot be allowed to go unchecked. It will worsen, believe me.

 

[Chatter163]

It is hard for me to see how an infraction like this could be mortal sin for an 11 year old and thus prevent him from receiving communion.

It is not hard for me to see. There was lying going on, and an eleven-year old certainly knows what a lie is.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

It is not hard for me to see. There was lying going on, and an eleven-year old certainly knows what a lie is.

I figure that if he’s old enough to receive communion he must be at the “age of reason” and therefor accountable for his sins. That is why they must first receive the sacrament of reconciliation before their first communion - I assume anyway.

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

So, not only are we all going to confession this Saturday, but I suggested we go to the Franciscan monastery to do it and DH is in agreement with that. Wow. They are very holy priests. I couldn’t think of a better place to go - and I haven’t been there in over a year - maybe even two. I think we’ll all get more out of doing it there. :extrahappy:

 

[kage_ar]

He won’t want to tear himself away from what he’s doing on a Saturday to go to confession.

Ummmm - a kid in this house who had been behaving in this way would have a Saturday filled with things to do… chopping wood, cleaning the carport, pulling weeds, scrubbing carpets… that they would be THRILLED to get in the car and go anywhere.

 

[Ruthie]

Eleven is not too young to begin the adolescent rebellion thing, especially in America. My niece is already showing signs of it, and she just turned 10!

And I’m sure his friend, whose parents are divorcing, is angry and rebelling against everything right now. And that certainly could rub off on your son. His friend is hurting, and they’re at an age where conformity is everything, so they just can’t hug each other and cry on each other’s shoulders.

Perhaps it would help if you and your spouse sat down with your son and told him that you are NOT divorcing. Especially if you are having disagreements with your spouse. “Yes, we argue. But we will not divorce over it.” Maybe be more publicly affectionate, if that is not your usual style.

And look around you. My niece has inherited the hard-headedness that is rampant in our family, and it shows. If you or your spouse is also hard headed, think of it as a family trait! That way, you can work around it instead of trying to stop it.

And don’t forget to tell him that you love him, so you want to meet him in Heaven, and that’s why you want him to be in a state of grace.

My 2 cents, and probably worth about that.

God bless you,

Ruthie

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Eleven is not too young to begin the adolescent rebellion thing, especially in America. My niece is already showing signs of it, and she just turned 10!

And I’m sure his friend, whose parents are divorcing, is angry and rebelling against everything right now. And that certainly could rub off on your son. His friend is hurting, and they’re at an age where conformity is everything, so they just can’t hug each other and cry on each other’s shoulders.

Perhaps it would help if you and your spouse sat down with your son and told him that you are NOT divorcing. Especially if you are having disagreements with your spouse. “Yes, we argue. But we will not divorce over it.” Maybe be more publicly affectionate, if that is not your usual style.

I hadn’t thought of that. He may be worried about that.

And look around you. My niece has inherited the hard-headedness that is rampant in our family, and it shows. If you or your spouse is also hard headed, think of it as a family trait! That way, you can work around it instead of trying to stop it.

welllllllll…yeah, I’m strong willed. Come to think of it, DH is too. It was pretty inevitable But I havae no idea how to work around it. I had to fall really hard to be humbled. I was lucky I was able to get back up again. I’m worried he won’t.

And don’t forget to tell him that you love him, so you want to meet him in Heaven, and that’s why you want him to be in a state of grace.

My 2 cents, and probably worth about that.

God bless you,

Ruthie

Priceless advice, thank you!

 

[WatchfulPilgrim]

Ummmm - a kid in this house who had been behaving in this way would have a Saturday filled with things to do… chopping wood, cleaning the carport, pulling weeds, scrubbing carpets… that they would be THRILLED to get in the car and go anywhere.

haha! well, confession will be late in the morning. i suppose i can put him to work for a few hours before that . I know its good for him - and he has definately “earned it”!