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thephilosopher6
Guest
What about the soul of the twin that was absorbed?
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BlackFriar
Guest
Try going through this recent long debate starting here:
How could a human individual not be a human person? Social Justice
(a) The absorbed twin died but its body parts were harvested by the surviving twin.
(b) Neither twin in fact was more primary but the present person is essentially a “Frankenstein” of the bodies of both twins. As souls cannot merge we can either conclude:
(i) one soul was lost (unlikely); OR
(ii) in fact at this primitive cellular stage the ancient Church teaching (derided by many since the recent discovery of gametes and DNA ) of delayed homisation applies. That is, we are only at a human “vegetative” or primitive “animal” soul stage (like amoeba) where “individuals” do not yet really exist. In this stage a spiritual, intellectual human soul (which is irreversibly individual) does not yet exist. After the two zygotes fuse and develop into a single individual then a fully human soul is infused which replaces the prior material human vegetative soul (or souls).
The existence of Chimera’s suggest the weakness of the arguments of many “scientific” Catholics who assert that unique DNA identifies the presence of a unique, individual and fully human soul/person.
In fact as science progresses it becomes clear that DNA is not a silver bullet analogue for the presence of human life/person/soul.
It is much more complicated than that it seems.
So, in accord with the teaching of Aristotle/Aquinas (responsible for our understanding of what soul means) there seem to be a number of possibilities:
(a) The absorbed twin died but its body parts were harvested by the surviving twin.
(b) Neither twin in fact was more primary but the present person is essentially a “Frankenstein” of the bodies of both twins. As souls cannot merge we can either conclude:
(i) one soul was lost (unlikely); OR
(ii) in fact at this primitive cellular stage the ancient Church teaching (derided by many since the recent discovery of gametes and DNA ) of delayed homisation applies. That is, we are only at a human “vegetative” or primitive “animal” soul stage (like amoeba) where “individuals” do not yet really exist. In this stage a spiritual, intellectual human soul (which is irreversibly individual) does not yet exist. After the two zygotes fuse and develop into a single individual then a fully human soul is infused which replaces the prior material human vegetative soul (or souls).
The existence of Chimera’s suggest the weakness of the arguments of many “scientific” Catholics who assert that unique DNA identifies the presence of a unique, individual and fully human soul/person.
In fact as science progresses it becomes clear that DNA is not a silver bullet analogue for the presence of human life/person/soul.
It is much more complicated than that it seems.
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Crocus
Guest
I’m a go wid “a.”
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Ghosty1981
Guest
I would also go with (a). The timing is obviously different, but this process isn’t fundamentally different from a bone marrow transplant, which is medically induced chimerism.
In a successful bone marrow transplant the recipient’s body accepts the blood-producing cells of the donor. The recipient will now produce blood that is genetically different from the rest of their body. If you take a blood sample from a bone marrow recipient the DNA will be different than that from a skin sample. Interestingly, bone marrow transplants can be used to treat people with severe autoimmune diseases, because their self-attacking white blood cells are replaced by genetically different cells, essentially swapping out their native immune system; in other words it is an immune system transplant.
This woman is experiencing a similar problem to autoimmune disease because one part of her body produces a different immune system from the other, and these systems attack the opposing cells and organs. She basically is experiencing life-long organ transplant rejection.
In a successful bone marrow transplant the recipient’s body accepts the blood-producing cells of the donor. The recipient will now produce blood that is genetically different from the rest of their body. If you take a blood sample from a bone marrow recipient the DNA will be different than that from a skin sample. Interestingly, bone marrow transplants can be used to treat people with severe autoimmune diseases, because their self-attacking white blood cells are replaced by genetically different cells, essentially swapping out their native immune system; in other words it is an immune system transplant.
This woman is experiencing a similar problem to autoimmune disease because one part of her body produces a different immune system from the other, and these systems attack the opposing cells and organs. She basically is experiencing life-long organ transplant rejection.
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Pup7
Guest
Having done bone marrow/stem cell transplants (yes, the transplant is done by an RN and observed/overseen by a doc) I assure you it’s not the same.
The body doesn’t “accept” the donor cells, either. Patients battle graft versus host disease and are on anti rejection drugs for years just like solid organ recipients.
Chimeras don’t have GVHD. It’s not the same.
Everyone’s immune system is made in the bone marrow, which is why you get graft v host and not host v graft (like solid organ recipients). Her autoimmune issues may or may not be related, as it depends on where the chimeric cells exist.
Actually live marrow goes up like a blood transfusion, and is less of a big deal for administration than stem cells. What gets stem cell recipients is the preservative DMSO, which can cause severe reactions. Live marrow is rare these days and is generally only used for complete failure of the recipient’s marrow as in aplastic anemia or with SCIDS.
The body doesn’t “accept” the donor cells, either. Patients battle graft versus host disease and are on anti rejection drugs for years just like solid organ recipients.
Chimeras don’t have GVHD. It’s not the same.
Everyone’s immune system is made in the bone marrow, which is why you get graft v host and not host v graft (like solid organ recipients). Her autoimmune issues may or may not be related, as it depends on where the chimeric cells exist.
Actually live marrow goes up like a blood transfusion, and is less of a big deal for administration than stem cells. What gets stem cell recipients is the preservative DMSO, which can cause severe reactions. Live marrow is rare these days and is generally only used for complete failure of the recipient’s marrow as in aplastic anemia or with SCIDS.
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Monica83
Guest
The twin died but their Spirit is still in existence elsewhere(for this unborn baby most likely in Heaven) as we all will still be in existence when we die.
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Ghosty1981
Guest
Thank you for the clarifications. 
My point, which was not clear enough, is that a person with a bone marrow transplant will possess two sets of DNA in their body while remaining a single individual, as will a natural-born chimera. That is the commonality I was addressing.
This woman obviously has more than just bone marrow affected by her condition, as can be seen by her different skin tones. We don’t really know the extent of her condition, however.
My point, which was not clear enough, is that a person with a bone marrow transplant will possess two sets of DNA in their body while remaining a single individual, as will a natural-born chimera. That is the commonality I was addressing.
This woman obviously has more than just bone marrow affected by her condition, as can be seen by her different skin tones. We don’t really know the extent of her condition, however.
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Pup7
Guest
Yep.
I had one guy, a colonel, crack massive jokes about how his donor was his sister. When his bone marrow became 51/49 (percent hers to his - that is considered a transplant milestone and a massive marker on the road to cure), the docs told me I could go tell him.
I had a good relationship with this man.
I asked him if he felt any different - like maybe wanting to paint his room, go shopping, talk about fluffy kittens and pink bows.
He got a huge laugh out of it, called his sister and said she now had a twin.
I had one guy, a colonel, crack massive jokes about how his donor was his sister. When his bone marrow became 51/49 (percent hers to his - that is considered a transplant milestone and a massive marker on the road to cure), the docs told me I could go tell him.
I had a good relationship with this man.
I asked him if he felt any different - like maybe wanting to paint his room, go shopping, talk about fluffy kittens and pink bows.
He got a huge laugh out of it, called his sister and said she now had a twin.
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Ghosty1981
Guest
Too bad his wife wasn’t the donor, then “his better half” would have a whole new layer of meaning. 
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