Chosen People...

[francisca]

Karin:

are the jews the only descendants of Abraham? if that is the case since Jesus was a JEw does that give claim to the land of Israel to the Catholics also??

Abraham is our father in faith. To believe God is to receive His Word, and this Word has become a Man. To believe in this Man, we are to receive God’s Word. Therefore Abraham’s descendants will be “as many as the stars in the sky” as God asserted, then Abraham believed, and therefore God account this as The Truth. Therefore Abraham’s descendants are not only Jews : because whoever believe in Jesus Christ (God’s Word) is Abraham’s descendants.

Karin:

The only son of God is Jesus…unless I am wrong !!!

Yes, Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

Karin:

Christ has come already…still no peace or are we waiting for the 2nd coming??And in regards to the last sentence in your post…does that mean that the Jews need to convert to the Catholic church for there to be peace??? HELP!!!

Yes, Christ has come, but not many people truly believe Him. Only if one let Christ reign in his heart, then he will have peace. To let Christ reign means to receive Him as The Messiah.

In the “national” scale, it means : only when Christ is received as The Messiah by all, only then that there will be peace in the land (and yes, Jesus will come as The King at the second coming : He reigns. His shallom peace will reign in the world literally). The Prince of Peace has to reign in order that we have peace.

Surely some people love to talk about physical war, but the real war is never physical. It was and will always be spiritual.

Therefore The Church has come to a principle, recently : “religion should not be the reason of any kinds of violence”. The war should never be the answer. That believers are to respect the truth in other religions as seen by individuals-- as a person loved by God regardless of what his religion is.

God choose some people in order to save many more. He choose Israel in order that all nations be blessed : that one day, we will ultimately be rooted and established in His Love.

May God bless us all.

 

[Karin]

stillsmallvoice: Thank you for the post & the info…once again it raisies more questions for me…

1.in terms of jewish/arab views on being anti-semitic. My definintion that I found was that jews and arabs are both semetic…so the term should not apply just to the discrimination of jews but to any semetic!.
**“Semitic **is an adjective which in common parlance mistakenly refers specifically to Jewish things, while the term actually refers to things originating among speakers of Semitic languages or people descended from them, and in a linguistic context to the northeastern subfamily of Afro-Asiatic.”- or perhaps In a religious context, the term Semitic can refer to the religions associated with the speakers of these languages: thus Judaism Christianity and Islam are often described as “Semitic religions”,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semetic

1. The part of the penal code that concerned me was that it applied not just to crimes against Israel (the country) but to any crime against a jew. So in that context it would seem that perhaps I should beware the police may come knocking becuase I am questioning the jewish issues etc. some jews would view that as a crime.
2. You stated Jews who shriek “Anti-Semite!” at anyone who criticizes some aspect of Judaism or Israel are doing the same disservice to my faith as Catholics who shriek “Anti-Catholic bigot!” at anyone who criticizes some aspect of Roman Catholicism are doing to theirs.I have never heard a Catholic say “Anti Catholic Bigot” but I have heard and read more often ANTI-SEMITIC…in todays day and age it is a very popular phrase.

 

[Karin]

francisca:

Abraham is our father in faith. To believe God is to receive His Word, and this Word has become a Man. To believe in this Man, we are to receive God’s Word. Therefore Abraham’s descendants will be “as many as the stars in the sky” as God asserted, then Abraham believed, and therefore God account this as The Truth. Therefore Abraham’s descendants are not only Jews : because whoever believe in Jesus Christ (God’s Word) is Abraham’s descendants. Do they (jews) really believe that this includes Catholics???

Yes, Jesus is the only begotten son of God.

Surely some people love to talk about physical war, but the real war is never physical. It was and will always be spiritual.
Therefore The Church has come to a principle, recently : “religion should not be the reason of any kinds of violence”. The war should never be the answer. That believers are to respect the truth in other religions as seen by individuals-- as a person loved by God regardless of what his religion is. I agree…do the Jews believe the same or is it more whatever action is required… the land is ours (god says so)…

God choose some people in order to save many more. He choose Israel in order that all nations be blessed : that one day, we will ultimately be rooted and established in His Love.
May God bless us all.

 

[Karin]

stillsmallvoice: I try to learn things so I can understand and grow as a person. WIth that being said can you perhaps help me to understand the following… forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=63493

 

[francisca]

Karin:

Do they (jews) really believe that this includes Catholics???

Do Jews think catholics are decendants of Abraham?

No, unless they are messianic jews, no.

Karin:

I agree…do the Jews believe the same or is it more whatever action is required… the land is ours (god says so)…

The Jews are the decendant of Abraham by flesh and blood. According to this : yes, the land belongs to them as said by God.
This is for all people of the world to see : that Israel’s God is God. But I believe that this is only a sign of what happens and will happen in the spiritual realm. The land of palestine is the sign of the bigger fenomena : the land of plenty, flowing with milk and honey is a figure of Heaven. And we ought to claim this Land (Heaven), not by the flesh & blood of Abraham, but by the flesh and blood of God Himself : that is Jesus’s flesh and blood, the lamb of God.

Pslams 46

1.  The nations made an uproar, the kingdoms tottered;

He raised His voice, the earth melted.
7. The LORD of hosts is with us; [this literally means “Immanuel” as mentioned in Isiah 7:14 the sign of the peace and victory for King Ahaz. This sign means only one thing : that God literally will incarnate through a virgin. Sure in the physical realm it only meant the birth of a certain hero for judah, but in spiritual realm it literally means “God is with us= God comes among us” - francisca]
The God of Jacob is our stronghold. Selah.
8. Come, behold the works of the LORD,
Who has wrought desolations in the earth.
9. He makes wars to cease to the end of the earth[this means there will be no war anymore, because God stops it. Peace on earth is because of God];
He breaks the bow and cuts the spear in two;
He burns the chariots with fire.
10. “Cease striving and know that I am God; [God says, “hey nations, cease striving, know that Jesus is God!”. If Jesus is a false prophent, he had been rightly executed, his case had been closed a long long time ago, he had got what he deserved. But no, Jesus was executed innocent, because he spoke The Truth. The case is still open until you know that “I am God” - francisca]
I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.”
11. The LORD of hosts is with us;[again this is “Immanuel” - francisca]
The God of Jacob is our stronghold. Selah.

Isiah 52

1.  "Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, `Here I am.' "

2.  How lovely on the mountains

Are the feet of him who brings good news,
Who announces peace
And brings good news of happiness,
Who announces salvation,
And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”

 

[Karin]

francisca:

Do Jews think catholics are decendants of Abraham?

No, unless they are messianic jews, no. Just this part…can you explain it

 

[francisca]

Messianic Jews, they recognize Jesus as The Messiah. There are some of them.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Francisca, you posted:

Messianic Jews, they recognize Jesus as The Messiah. There are some of them.

Hmmm…

While many/most(?) so-called “Messianic Jews” may indeed be Jews (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or had an orthodox conversion before adopting their heretical beliefs), what they believe and practice is certainly not Judaism.

I certainly don’t want to insult or offend anyone here but beliefs in Jesus/Yeshua as the Messiah, the “Son of God”, an avatar of God Incarnate and/or a “person” within a triune God, and/or in the very idea that God could/did become flesh, etc. are totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared.

I have seen more than a few Christian (!) websites that purport to state what various “Ancient Rabbis” really said or really meant regarding the nature and/or identity of the Messiah. No Jewish Sage or rabbi worth his salt has ever made any favorable references to Jesus, the Trinity or the Incarnation no matter what any would-be missionaries-on-the-make or those with a king-size axe to grind would have you believe, mistranslations and misrepresentations (whether innocent or deliberate), and badly-taken-out-of-context quotes by would-be missionaries-on-the-make and those with an agenda, notwithstanding. Claims to the contrary are preposterous.

While I certainly believe in honest & friendly (always!) dialogue between Jews and Christians, I also believe that such dialogue must be based on a recognition that ours are two separate faiths; one can subscribe to one or the other but not both.

Be well!

ssv

 

[Karin]

stillsmallvoice:

Hi all!

Hmmm…

While many/most(?) so-called “Messianic Jews” may indeed be Jews (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or had an orthodox conversion before adopting their heretical beliefs), what they believe and practice is certainly not Judaism.

I certainly don’t want to insult or offend anyone here but beliefs in Jesus/Yeshua as the Messiah, the “Son of God”, an avatar of God Incarnate and/or a “person” within a triune God, and/or in the very idea that God could/did become flesh, etc. are totally, utterly, and completely incompatible with traditional, normative (i.e. orthodox) Judaism, whether of the Rabbinic or Karaite variety. (Heck, even the Samaritans would agree with us on this one!) This circle can never be squared.

I have seen more than a few Christian (!) websites that purport to state what various “Ancient Rabbis” really said or really meant regarding the nature and/or identity of the Messiah. No Jewish Sage or rabbi worth his salt has ever made any favorable references to Jesus, the Trinity or the Incarnation no matter what any would-be missionaries-on-the-make or those with a king-size axe to grind would have you believe, mistranslations and misrepresentations (whether innocent or deliberate), and badly-taken-out-of-context quotes by would-be missionaries-on-the-make and those with an agenda, notwithstanding. Claims to the contrary are preposterous.

While I certainly believe in honest & friendly (always!) dialogue between Jews and Christians, I also believe that such dialogue must be based on a recognition that ours are two separate faiths; one can subscribe to one or the other but not both.

Be well!

ssv

SSV: Yes, both faiths are different. So in the context of the following “Jews are God’s chosen people”…does that make them superior religion wise to all others???

 

[francisca]

stillsmallvoice:

Hi all!

Francisca, you posted:

Hmmm…

While many/most(?) so-called “Messianic Jews” may indeed be Jews (i.e. they were born of Jewish mothers or had an orthodox conversion before adopting their heretical beliefs), what they believe and practice is certainly not Judaism.

Hi there !

I went to Israel for a vacation last Christmas, and my tour guide happened to be a mesianic Jew. This is my only encounter with a messianic Jew in my life. It was also my first time to go to Israel, and saw “the chosen people”-- for the first time in my life-- in “the holy land”. It was great.

I am not so sure of how he practice Judaism, but I believe that he said that he was still celebrating Jewish festivals, etc.

stillsmallvoice:

While I certainly believe in honest & friendly (always!) dialogue between Jews and Christians, I also believe that such dialogue must be based on a recognition that ours are two separate faiths; one can subscribe to one or the other but not both.

I do believe in honest dialogue as well. I do believe that a good dialogue consists of a series of information exchange based on references and point of views that each party honestly believe to be the nearest to the truth, and at the same time we regard the other party’s/ parties’ opinions & questions – no matter how bizzare-- as their most honest opinions/ curiousity as the product of trustible good will, regardless wether or not he/they have “agendas”. In other words, to brush away suspicion from the dialogue, although the parties might have agendas : for if one accuse the other, the other can accuse him as well, then there will be no dialogue anymore. Instead, we address each others questions without having to analyse each other’s motives/ agendas, we are to focus on the substance of the dialogue.

For those who truly seek the truth can not help but speak up their minds & hearts and try to understand others who speak up their minds & hearts as well. From there both sides may arrive to a conclusion, or at least to a place of where peace is.

So long this is done with politeness and is based on trust and respect and honesty…

May the Lords face shine on us !

 

[Karin]

francisca:

I do believe in honest dialogue as well. I do believe that a good dialogue consists of a series of information exchange based on references and point of views that each party honestly believe to be the nearest to the truth, and at the same time we regard the other party’s/ parties’ opinions & questions – no matter how bizzare-- as their most honest opinions/ curiousity as the product of trustible good will, regardless wether or not he/they have “agendas”. In other words, to brush away suspicion from the dialogue, although the parties might have agendas : for if one accuse the other, the other can accuse him as well, then there will be no dialogue anymore. Instead, we address each others questions without having to analyse each other’s motives/ agendas, we are to focus on the substance of the dialogue.

For those who truly seek the truth can not help but speak up their minds & hearts and try to understand others who speak up their minds & hearts as well. From there both sides may arrive to a conclusion, or at least to a place of where peace is.

So long this is done with politeness and is based on trust and respect and honesty…

May the Lords face shine on us !