Christian response to COVID

[divinefaith]

I notice many conservative, Christian people (in my personal life and online) insisting that the COVID pandemic has been exaggerated and is unjust on society (especially from an economical aspect). This is leaving me curious about how as Christians we should be responding to this. Of course there won’t be a universal response but what principles would we be taken into account?

 

[Fauken]

many conservative, Christian people

This is leaving me curious about how as Christians we should be responding to this.

Well since you’ve seemed to have already decided that they’re not responding in a Christian manner, how do you think they should be responding?

 

[Genesis315]

Christians should respond by staying in the state of grace by obeying the Commandments (summed up as love of God and neighbor), turning to God with a contrite heart when we don’t, praying for our needs and those others, especially spiritual needs like asking God for the grace of final perseverance and to be spared an unprovided death. Death, judgment, Heaven or Hell come to us all, one way or another, whether by disease, economic, collapse, or some other means. We should always be ready.
So, in other words, the same thing we always do.

Questions about balancing the different costs and risks and deciding which measures therefore best serve the common good in any particular circumstances are political questions. No one is omniscient about factual circumstances, so there will always be a difference of opinions (even among those motivated by pure love and good will) on what is best for our communities in such circumstances. Making these kinds of decisions is the purpose of politics and in most western forms of society, people are supposed to make known their various opinions. As long as your opinion is being made and voiced with an upright conscience, a Christian could support any of the proposed approaches I have seen.

Just too add, here are the elements of the common good that we should be considering. it is rarely possible to maximize them all in this fallen world, so, as I mentioned above, they must be weighed and balanced (and certain evils may need to be tolerated) to achieve the greatest total good. That is the sole purpose of politics and public authority.

CCC

1925 The common good consists of three essential elements: respect for and promotion of the fundamental rights of the person; prosperity, or the development of the spiritual and temporal goods of society; the peace and security of the group and of its members.

This pandemic and our response to it certainly touches on all of the elements above.

 

[PennyinCanada]

I have no control over what a nation decides when they govern their country.

For me, I continue to take care of what is mine to take care of, always doing my morning offering, uniting with Christ, for the conversion of sinners as our blessed Mother asked us to do at Fatima.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Empathy, caring, prayer consideration and charity.

Yes there are those who dont believe this is real, dont believe it is so bad, dont believe they can get ill, or think this is some conspiracy.
Initially the rhetoric was ‘flu is worse, more die from it’. All sorts of comparitive stats were trotted out to downplay the serious nature of this contagion.
People still talking that way are blessed to have not had it impact them or those they know. It is early days yet.

 

[otjm]

Ah, the fantasy of Monday Morning Quarterbacks: “If it had been me I would/wouldn’t do thus and so…”

The Communist Party of China controls the news as best they can, and has been doing so throughout this pandemic and well before it spread outside of the isolated area in which it started.

That is 1.

Intelligence (and others) have been aware of the level 4 lab in Wuhan since it was built by the French.

That is 2.

It was well known that as a level 4 lab, those working there were working with the highest level of dangerous viruses, microbes, etc.

That is 3.

In spite of the outright lies coming out of the official (and highly controlled) information from both the Communist government and the WHO, there was anecdotal information that it a) appeared to be highly contagious and spread rapidly and b) it appeared to attack the lungs/breathing; and c) cases which were critical appeared to be ones rapidly deteriorating.

That is 4.

Around January 21 - 22, Beijing stepped in and locked down Wuhan.

That is 5.

There were mixed messages in the US, however, President Trump acted to try to stem the spread of the virus, urging State Governors to institute lockdowns.

That is 6.

Neither the United States nor most of Europe had accurate and plentiful testing kits to determine if someone was infected.

That is 7.

Mayor Bill de Blasio, as this was ramping up, was publicly saying that the virus was not that contiguous, this was not something to be scared of, and people should carry on. Representative Pelosi was sa;ying that Trump was xenophobic and racist, and people should get out and go to Chinese restaurants to support Chinese US citizens.

That is 8.

New York, and in particular New York City came close to crashing their ICUs - the point that President Trump, Dr, Fauci and others in the administration had been predicting could happen.

That is 9.

The elderly, and in particular those over 70, and anyone with a compromised immunity system are particularly at risk of everywhere from serious complications from the disease to rapidly dying once they have reached the need for a ventilator to assist in breathing.

That is 10.

It appears that hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin and possibly zinc sulphate are working for doctors who are actually treating patients. And yes, I am aware of the report from the VA; aside from the fact that it is less than a controlled study, they were not following the public protocol of administering to patients before the patients crashed to the point of needing a ventilator; instead, they were administering after the patient had crashed. Oops, people died… And of course the news medial being intent on politicizing anything and everything about the Administration, have been on the bandwagon of how terrible that combination of drugs is - in other words, outright lying. There appears to be another drug or combination which also may be working.

That is 11. (continued)

 

[otjm]

(continued)

Two researchers, one a statistician and the other an economist (who may also have a medical degree) from Stanford University have run tests locally which appear to indicate that the % of people who have caught the virus but have had either no symptoms or very mild symptoms is far wider than anyone was predicting. That is the good news, but is also indicative of the old adage: When you are up to you (seat of the pants) in alligators, it is difficult to remember your initial project was to drain the swamp". We were in crisis mode with nearly no correct information from the source - Wuhan, and the Communist government as to what we were dealing with and no adequate means of determining what was correct.

That is 12.

Japan, with a different culture which is highly compliant to government directions, went to lockdown and appeared to level off the rate of infections spreading; they opened up and had a whip-snap of infections.

That is 13.

What should be the Christian response? Common sense would indicate that the world - not just the US - has been hit with what biological warfare would look like (note - I did not say this is or was biological warfare - just that it show what such would look like) and that given the lack of information and the threat (remember New York # of deaths), that the powers that be - both the Federal and the State governments, have acted as best they could with what they had. Perhaps in Kentucky the who matter appears overblown; I suspect in New York the opinion might be just the opposite.

That same commons sense would indicate that while we might have an over-reaction, it hasn’t been that for over for a reaction.

Then, again, Voltaire said that the problem with common sense is that it is not all that common.

It has nothing to do with what a “Christian” response should be. It has to do with common sense.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Mayor Bill de Blasio, as this was ramping up, was publicly saying that… people should carry on. Representative Pelosi was saying that … people should get out and go to Chinese restaurants to support Chinese US citizens.

Which is exactly what the Trump-inspired “liberate Michigan” and “liberate Minnesota” and “liberate Virginia” people are saying right now.

It appears that hydroxychloroquine with azithromycin and possibly zinc sulphate are working for doctors who are actually treating patients.

Or, maybe those patients just recovered on their own. Most do. There is no evidence that HCQ or combinations with HCQ improve the odds.

 

[Welshrabbit]

An excellent summation. Thank you.

Are you a fan of the No Agenda podcast by chance?

 

[otjm]

On the contrary, there is more than ample evidence from the physicians who are administering it.

Both my younger brother and sister-in-law have contracted the virus, had symptoms of headaches, fever and coughing; as well as a cousin (whom I know) of one of my son-in-laws, Her symptomns lasted about 8 days; my brothe and his wife 5 to 6 days.

And yes there appear to be a multitude of people who have been either asymptomatic or had such mild reactions to the virus that they were not aware they were infected.

However, it has been administered to patients who have become so bad they were hospitalized; and when given before the patients needed to be on a ventilator, has cause fast remissions.

You are welcome to call me or the doctors reporting its effectiveness liars, but I choose to listen to the doctors who are actually “on the firing line”.

And I made no suggestion that it was or should be administered to those with mild symptoms, nor do I know of anyone so suggesting.

 

[otjm]

I try to get my information from several sources, and have not heard of that one; - I will look.

I spent a bit of time in the military in intelligence - nothing to do with BW, but intelligence issues have always caught my attention. I was out on a hunt in New Mexico for most of the 3rd week of February, and after getting back home made the remark to several people that the virus sounded like a BW type disease and guessed the source was something other than the open market.

As I am retired, I have too much time on my hands and have been watching reports for and against the virus, the reactions to the virus, the economy, and related matters. Having spent some time as a trial lawyer, I tend to dissect information differently than many people do (Fauchi’s answer to a reporter about the possible release from a lab was an absolutely classic non-answer).

Sadly, the issue in the US has become phenomenally politicized, with both mis-information and outright lies being passed off by people who purport to be news reporters; instead of facts, we are treated to editorialization and a whole lot of that simply wrong.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

On the contrary, there is more than ample evidence from the physicians who are administering it.

However, it has been administered to patients who have become so bad they were hospitalized; and when given before the patients needed to be on a ventilator, has cause fast remissions.

You don’t know if those remissions were caused by HCQ because many people, even when seriously ill, do recover without HCQ. That is why we need a study. And we do have them underway. Several of them. Just wait a while and see before declaring what is not known.

You are welcome to call me or the doctors reporting its effectiveness liars

Neither you nor the doctors are liars. You, because you just don’t know any better, and the doctors because they are not reporting what you think they are reporting.

And I made no suggestion that it was or should be administered to those with mild symptoms, nor do I know of anyone so suggesting.

There is a video circulating by one Dr. Aggarwal who suggests that HCQ might be effective, but only if given before the infection gets too severe. (He is not an infectious disease specialist, I should add.)

 

[otjm]

You don’t know if those remissions were caused by HCQ because many people, even when seriously ill, do recover without HCQ. That is why we need a study. And we do have them underway. Several of them. Just wait a while and see before declaring what is not known.

For starters, I did not say “I know”. I said what is factually being reported.

And those fact which are being reported are the basis of the study which you say Is needed; I did not say a study is not needed. Don’t play a “fauci” on me’ I know why he said what he said - it was because of his position as chief cook and bottle washer in this whole fracas. He was not in a position as to the science - which he said - to say that he would recommend it. He did not, as far as any times I heard him speak on the matter - say it should not be used.

I don’t"think I know what they are reporting" - I heard what they are reporting. Calm down and don’t play “expert” with me.

The same could be said for the report from the VA - which also does not fit your “study” - as they were administering it after patients were being placed on ventilators - which is basically when they are physically crashing. And there have been multiple reports of people who have been hospitalized and have experienced rapid recovery - those reports being made by the treating physicians in the hospitals.

I did not say it is a miracle drug; I did not say it is the accepted protocol; it is being used in more than just the United States, and that appears to indicate that it is not something based on a comment by non-physicians. Given that no one knew how to treat the virus and that we now have 196,575 deaths worldwide and counting, and physicians everywhere are scrambling to try to find something - anything - which can effectively prevent people from dying, and there are reports from treating physicians in hospitals from Asia and Europe as well as the US working with people who are somewhere between seriously and severely sick with this virus, that is what is going on.

Your study is in progress.

 

[MPat]

I notice many conservative, Christian people (in my personal life and online) insisting that the COVID pandemic has been exaggerated and is unjust on society (especially from an economical aspect). This is leaving me curious about how as Christians we should be responding to this. Of course there won’t be a universal response but what principles would we be taken into account?

There are many principles that play a part. Some people discuss some of them (Edward Feser: Some thoughts on the COVID-19 crisis, Edward Feser: The lockdown’s loyal opposition, Can We Measure the Value of Saving Human Lives in Dollars? Somber Calculations in a Time of Plague - Public Discourse, Fear and Forbearance | http://undergroundthomist.com, Siris: Pandemic Notes).

For example, courage is a virtue and cowardice and recklessness are vices - so one should not panic about disease nor about economy. Panic does not lead to good decisions and it often backfires.

Likewise, Catholic Social Doctrine includes principle of solidarity, thus it rules out ignoring the plight of others - both caused by disease and by economic hardship.

Subsidiarity also applies, encouraging leaving some things for market and communities (instead of the state) to handle.

You don’t know if those remissions were caused by HCQ because many people, even when seriously ill, do recover without HCQ. That is why we need a study. And we do have them underway. Several of them. Just wait a while and see before declaring what is not known.

Unfortunately, studies are overrated. Just look what you write afterwards:

who suggests that HCQ might be effective, but only if given before the infection gets too severe.

Well, are the studies going to check precisely that? If this guess is right, and a study is performed without taking it into account, then the answer it gives will depend on the number of participants with mild and severe cases. In either case, it is going to be misleading. And what if there are still more important factors that we didn’t consider yet?

Such studies are mostly good for rechecking the answer we already know to be mostly correct.

Also see Smith and Pell, “Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge: systematic review of randomised controlled trials”, “BMJ”, 2003 (Parachute use to prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge: systematic review of randomised controlled trials)…

Unfortunately, decisions will have to be made using very imperfect information… Which, by the way, hints at the importance of prudence.

 

[Hodos]

The simple answer is that there is no simple answer. We are told to Love Your Neighbor, yet we don’t always agree on what that might look like. On the one hand, extreme social distancing practices have demonstrated that they can help slow the spread of the disease, and help prevent medical systems from being overwhelmed all at once. On another hand this has had an equally damaging side effect, resulting in over 30 million Americans losing their jobs in a three week span, canceling of non-emergent medical procedures, etc. Ultimately, not everyone is going to see both sides of the argument the same way and are going to be led to propose different solutions. We need to have grace toward one another, not assuming the worst of our neighbor who may have legitimate concerns. We also need to do our best to assimilate the relevant information as it arrives so that we can make the best decisions we can for the benefit of our neighbor. What can we personally do? Obey the law to the best of our ability, check on our neighbor to make sure they have the things they need to make it through, pray for our leaders and one another, trust in God.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And there have been multiple reports of people who have been hospitalized and have experienced rapid recovery

Multiple people have indeed recovered. Some of them quite rapidly. But responsible medical professionals are not reporting that those recoveries were due to HCQ. Other than that, I think we are in agreement.

LeafByNiggle:

You don’t know if those remissions were caused by HCQ because many people, even when seriously ill, do recover without HCQ. That is why we need a study. And we do have them underway. Several of them. Just wait a while and see before declaring what is not known.

Unfortunately, studies are overrated. Just look what you write afterwards:

who suggests that HCQ might be effective, but only if given before the infection gets too severe.

Well, are the studies going to check precisely that?

I don’t know. Nor do I put much stock in Dr. Aggarwal’s analysis.

 

[Welshrabbit]

I try to get my information from several sources, and have not heard of that one; - I will look.

I think you’ll appreciate it. Episodes are a bit long but they do a GREAT job of exposing the ridiculousness of today’s American media.

I spent a bit of time in the military in intelligence -

Not surprised after reading your posts that you once had a TS/SCI after your name…

As I am retired,

I am jealous. Nine more years to a pension and I’m out like a light!

Sadly, the issue in the US has become phenomenally politicized, with both mis-information and outright lies being passed off by people who purport to be news reporters; instead of facts, we are treated to editorialization and a whole lot of that simply wrong.

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure if journalists will ever regain the public’s trust.

 

[otjm]

But responsible medical professionals are not reporting that those recoveries were due to HCQ.

removed as duplicate response