Christian Unity

[strings385]

My heart has been on fire lately (in a good way) thinking about Christian unity. I was wondering what is the best thing I can do to promote Christian unity as a Catholic? Would the ultimate goal of unity be for all Christians to become Catholic or for there to at least be an end to all quarreling, a mutual respect, and a sort of peace treaty between us all? All the division among Christians really saddens me when I think about it. Especially cause when you think about it, most of Christians in the mainstream protestant churches believe the same core beliefs as summarized in the Apostles or Nicene Creed. And those who are baptized in the correct way, are definitely joined to us in Christ, although in an incomplete way. A lot of the things that separate us are minor things, like the whole faith and works debate. Yes, the protestant understanding is usually wrong, but why should that separate us? Can’t we be united as one Church visibly in some way? Also, I was wondering if there are any religious orders or apostolates that are dedicated to Christian unity?

 

[R_H_Benson]

My heart has been on fire lately (in a good way) thinking about Christian unity. I was wondering what is the best thing I can do to promote Christian unity as a Catholic? Would the ultimate goal of unity be for all Christians to become Catholic or for there to at least be an end to all quarreling, a mutual respect, and a sort of peace treaty between us all? All the division among Christians really saddens me when I think about it. Especially cause when you think about it, most of Christians in the mainstream protestant churches believe the same core beliefs as summarized in the Apostles or Nicene Creed. And those who are baptized in the correct way, are definitely joined to us in Christ, although in an incomplete way. A lot of the things that separate us are minor things, like the whole faith and works debate. Yes, the protestant understanding is usually wrong, but why should that separate us? Can’t we be united as one Church visibly in some way? Also, I was wondering if there are any religious orders or apostolates that are dedicated to Christian unity?

As the fullness of truth is found in the Catholic Church alone, authentic Christian unity would consist of all the baptized who have fallen away from the Church accepting the authority of the Pope and the doctrines and dogmas of the Church. Anything short of this is not unity. This has been the consistent teaching of the Church.

In our time, the Church has made great efforts to find common ground with our Separated Brethren. However, that is only the first step. Catholics must use that common ground to draw separated Christians to full communion with Rome. If we stop at merely establishing common ground and take ecumenism no further, then we have done nothing but create an attitude of indifference. Indifference is the death of true ecumenism. The salvation of souls is at stake, and that salvation is found in the Catholic Church. Knowing this, it becomes evident that true dialogue with our Separated Brethren will not always be pleasant. There will be disagreements. But such sincere dialogue, where the Church acts as the loving yet authoritative mother She is called to be, opposed to acting like a mere sibling among equals, is what will win souls back to Rome.

 

[Tomdstone]

As the fullness of truth is found in the Catholic Church alone,

Did the Catholic Church always have the fullness of truth ?

 

[Andre1000]

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!(Galatians 1:8)

The protestants don’t hold to the core believes, except if you think that the seven sacraments, sacred Tradition, the Church and morals are just nice but unimportant add on. The main difference is that the protestants opened the divine revelation of Jesus to bible speculations(that get wilder and wilder, soon there will be no consents anymore if Jesus is God or not, and in the last supper ceremony the words of Jesus are already optional and can be omitted in the German protestant churches) while the Catholic Church protected every pieces of the divine revelation of Jesus. Just read the early Christian documents they all are Catholic in spirit but you will find nothing of Protestantism there.

Did the Catholic Church always have the fullness of truth ?

The Church is the Pillar and Ground of Truth (1 Timothy 3:15)
…will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:18)

In the first centuries there was only one single Church, before the schism with Orthodox. There was only the Catholic Church and then sects like gnosis(a polytheistic pseudo religion) or some other that rejected the creator God as evil. Arianism came later and had it origin inside of the Church(it was started by Arian a Catholic priest). Protestantism was invented more then 1000 years after Jesus.

In fact the Orthodox agree with the Catholics about the nature of the Church and that the Church has the fullness of truth, because this was the consents of all Christians in the first centuries.

 

[Tomdstone]

In fact the Orthodox agree with the Catholics about the nature of the Church and that the Church has the fullness of truth, because this was the consents of all Christians in the first centuries.

I am not sure that the Catholic Church has always had the full truth on some issues such as burning people at the stake. At one time, it was thought to be OK, but now it is not.
Also, what is the full truth about the primary purpose of marriage? Is it procreative as was taught traditionally, or is it unitive as taught in Casti Connubii or are the purposes equal?

 

[jimboky]

A little about me,
I went to Catholic School first 6 years, that was many years ago, that means I know a little about the Catholic Church, though likely just enough to be dangerous

I have always felt that there is much more we agree on then we disagree on,

The Apostles Creed came up a couple of days ago, after rereading it I could find issue only with the capital C in Catholic,

Your Brother in Christ, jimboky

 

[bitterhope]

A little about me,
I went to Catholic School first 6 years, that was many years ago, that means I know a little about the Catholic Church, though likely just enough to be dangerous

I have always felt that there is much more we agree on then we disagree on,

The Apostles Creed came up a couple of days ago, after rereading it I could find issue only with the capital C in Catholic,

Your Brother in Christ, jimboky

I agree that there is more agreement than disagreement. Also, my copy of the Apostle’s Creed (in the catechism book I use with my kids), the c in catholic is lower case. One of my inlaws is Baptist and was a proxy for one of my children’s godparents at baptism. She agreed to do so because after reading over the Apostle’s Creed in my former parish’s hymnal she also saw it was a lower case c in catholic. She said knowing that with a lower case it meant universal she felt she she could promise to help raise our son to love Jesus. She also agreed with the rest of the Creed.

 

[Lion_IRC]

…The Apostles Creed came up a couple of days ago, after rereading it I could find issue only with the capital C in Catholic,

Your Brother in Christ, jimboky

1. LOL
2. Very good
3. Amen

 

[Lion_IRC]

In necessariis unitas,
In dubiis libertas,
In omnibus caritas.

 

[mh2007]

There is a lot of common ground to build upon. But scholars within the Church often hold different views. I would settle for unity with the Church.

Getting everyone on the same page may be impossible, even though they might be singing the same hymns, and praying the same formal prayers.

 

[PRmerger]

Did the Catholic Church always have the fullness of truth ?

Yes. The Catholic faith was whole and entire before a single word of the NT was ever put to writ.

However, our understanding of the faith has expanded and doctrinal development has occurred.

 

[jimboky]

I agree that there is more agreement than disagreement. Also, my copy of the Apostle’s Creed (in the catechism book I use with my kids), the c in catholic is lower case. One of my inlaws is Baptist and was a proxy for one of my children’s godparents at baptism. She agreed to do so because after reading over the Apostle’s Creed in my former parish’s hymnal she also saw it was a lower case c in catholic. She said knowing that with a lower case it meant universal she felt she she could promise to help raise our son to love Jesus. She also agreed with the rest of the Creed.

I hadn’t thought of the Creed since I was in Catholic School, sometime during the '60’s, it was at my sister’s funeral that it came up, she was Methodist, I was surprised as I always thought of it as a Catholic thing,
Even after all those years I could almost recite it, the Sisters did well

 

[CalCatholic]

I hadn’t thought of the Creed since I was in Catholic School, sometime during the '60’s, it was at my sister’s funeral that it came up, she was Methodist, I was surprised as I always thought of it as a Catholic thing,
Even after all those years I could almost recite it, the Sisters did well

The Creed is important to all Christians, it was a time when the east and western portions of the Church came together to profess their common belief in God; Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Their profession and unity in the belief of one God in the form of three Persons (Holy Trinity) was a strong defense against Arianism, a heresy that was swirling around the Roman empire in the fourth century. It was also a show of unity among the churches, which unfortunately would not last.

 

[thebub]

Wow. I read Titus (But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.) and think of this discussion. Didn’t Paul say that he preaches Christ crucified? Isn’t that what Protestants believe also? When “fullness” is discussed, I think of Billy Graham or Martin Luther King. Did they lack the fullness of the faith?

“For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

Could we not say this about the Pope? Were we baptized in the name of the Pope?

I believe there is one way to heaven. It’s not Catholicism, it’s not Protestantism, it’s Jesus. Please let us pray about this.

 

[PRmerger]

Wow. I read Titus (But avoid foolish controversies, genealogies, dissensions, and quarrels about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.) and think of this discussion. Didn’t Paul say that he preaches Christ crucified? Isn’t that what Protestants believe also?

Yes, Protestants believe that also. They simply stand in the tradition of Apollos, full of fervor for the Lord, but in need of some correction regarding doctrine.

When “fullness” is discussed, I think of Billy Graham or Martin Luther King. Did they lack the fullness of the faith?

Absolutely they did.

“For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe’s people, that there are quarrels among you. 12Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, “I am of Paul,” and “I of Apollos,” and “I of Cephas,” and “I of Christ.” 13Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?”

Could we not say this about the Pope? Were we baptized in the name of the Pope?

I believe there is one way to heaven. It’s not Catholicism, it’s not Protestantism, it’s Jesus. Please let us pray about this.

The above----very Catholic!

 

[Tomdstone]

As the fullness of truth is found in the Catholic Church alone,.

I am not sure whether the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth or that it always did have the fullness of truth. I think that there were mistakes made in the acceptance of torture during the Inquisition, for example. I do subscribe to its teaching today on torture. Also there were questions about whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone, the question of paying interest on loans, whether the Blood was shed for all or for many, the question of whether a priest could own a slave, the question of capital punishment by burning at the stake, the question of whether women should keep silent in church, the correct date for Easter, whether leavened or unleavened bread should be used, the use of profane music during liturgy, baptism by sprinkling, marriage annulment process as it is practiced in the USA today.

 

[PRmerger]

I am not sure whether the Catholic Church has the fullness of truth or that it always did have the fullness of truth. I think that there were mistakes made in the acceptance of torture during the Inquisition, for example. I do subscribe to its teaching today on torture. Also there were questions about whether the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father alone**, the question of paying interest on loans,** whether the Blood was shed for all or for many, the question of whether a priest could own a slave, the question of capital punishment by burning at the stake, the question of whether women should keep silent in church, the correct date for Easter, whether leavened or unleavened bread should be used, the use of profane music during liturgy, baptism by sprinkling, marriage annulment process as it is practiced in the USA today.

Curious–do you think it’s immoral to charge interest on loans? If so, why?

 

[Exiled_Child]

My heart has been on fire lately (in a good way) thinking about Christian unity. I was wondering what is the best thing I can do to promote Christian unity as a Catholic? Would the ultimate goal of unity be for all Christians to become Catholic or for there to at least be an end to all quarreling, a mutual respect, and a sort of peace treaty between us all? All the division among Christians really saddens me when I think about it. Especially cause when you think about it, most of Christians in the mainstream protestant churches believe the same core beliefs as summarized in the Apostles or Nicene Creed. And those who are baptized in the correct way, are definitely joined to us in Christ, although in an incomplete way. A lot of the things that separate us are minor things, like the whole faith and works debate. Yes, the protestant understanding is usually wrong, but why should that separate us? Can’t we be united as one Church visibly in some way? Also, I was wondering if there are any religious orders or apostolates that are dedicated to Christian unity?

That’s something I think about, too. It’s my dream that all Christian denominations could somehow remain true to themselves, and yet still come together and unite under the umbrella of Rome. Imagine how strong Christianity would become. It would require a different kind of evangelization, one not aimed at the secular world, but rather at the rest of the Christian family. So new forms of evangelization are needed. Books, films and music are some avenues that could work toward this end. Personally, I’d like to see a Catholic novelist along the lines of Hermann Hesse. Think of his impact in the sixties upon hippies. His books were highly accessible and enjoyable, and they introduced an entire generation to Eastern spirituality and Gnosticism and whatnot - perhaps a gifted person could do something similar in a Catholic/Christian framework, and at least broach the idea of Christian unity to a wide audience of Christians.

 

[Tomdstone]

That’s something I think about, too. It’s my dream that all Christian denominations could somehow remain true to themselves, and yet still come together and unite under the umbrella of Rome.

I don’t see how women Protestant clergy would accept the teaching of Rome on male clergy only. My personal opinion on “unity”. I don’t see non-Catholic Christians supporting the infallibility of the Roman Catholic Pope. They might accept him as having some sort of primacy of honor, but I doubt that they would agree to any sort of universal jurisdiction of the Pope. With the Eastern or Oriental Orthodox, if there were a reunion, then I don;t see such a reunion being much different from the situation which exists now, with each Church retaining its traditions. the only difference would be that intercommunion would be allowed between Roman Catholics and Orthodox.