"Christianity is not a religion" by some Protestants

[Koineman]

But you are assuming that to be faithful to their views they must see all ritual as wrong. This assumption is unwarranted.

As I recall, I was referring to people who reject “religion” because it contains any ritual–in other words, people who reject all ritual.

They can and are perfectly consistent in their arguments to differentiate between people who abuse ritual–those who use ritual as “a form of godliness” lacking any power–and those who use ritual, liturgy, program, etc. rightly–who worship God in Spirit and in Truth.

Fair enough. The problem, though, is that when people who speak this “Christianity is relationship, not religion” mantra, they never make this distinction you speak of. They never say, “Christianity is a relationship, not the abuse of ritual.” They simply pit the ideas of “relationship” and “religion” against each other absolutely.

Romans 6:4 in context states:

Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

I don’t deny that baptism is a burial of the old man or that in baptism, like Noah and his family in the ark or the Hebrews at the Red Sea, we pass safely through the waters of death to rise in newness of life.

I think it is important, however, to refer to the whole counsel of God, which does not ascribe instrumentality to baptism (or more specifically the waters of baptism)

But the Greek of Rom. 6:4 actually does indicate instrumentality. The construction in the Greek is διὰ (through) τοῦ βαπτίσματος (baptism). The noun *baptism * is in the genitive case, and whenever dia is used in a prepositional phrase with a genitive noun (as here), it indicates instrumentality.

but clarifies that faith is the instrument by which we are united with Christ.

That does not contradict what I said about baptism. This is the typical false dichotomy that is set up between baptism and faith, as if the two were opposed to each other, as if baptism were some kind of work that we do in addition to faith. That, however, is an assumption that baptism is itself a human work–as assumption that comes from your particular theological system. It is unwarranted, though. Baptism is God’s work, not our work. It’s not ordinary water, but water joined to God’s Word and to God’s name.

There is no conflict between the truths of salvation by faith alone and baptism as an instrument of being buried with Christ.

Elsewhere, Paul speaks of baptism and faith together in such a way that shows that faith is the means with which we are regenerated and justified, while baptism is an outward expression or proof of that faith.

Galatians 3:26-27, “for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

Yes. However, it is very interesting that in this text, the grammatical construction in the Greek of the phrase “through faith” is the same type as in Rom. 6:4 when referring to baptism:

διὰ (through) τῆς πίστεως (faith, genitive case)

Thus, in both Rom. 6:4 and this text from Galatians, both baptism and faith are described as instruments.

In 1 Peter 3:21 we are taught the following: “Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.”

How does baptism save? It saves by being an appeal to God for a good conscience. This is what faith does. It appeals.

Again, this does not indicate any tension between baptism and faith. I have no problem with the text “not as a removal of dirt from the body,” since the water of baptism is no ordinary water. It’s not the ordinary water that comes through our shower nozzles and kitchen sink faucets that we use for cleaning purposes. It’s water joined to God’s Word and to God’s name.

Also, since the text clearly says that baptism saves, and then says “as an appeal to God for a good conscience,” both faith and baptism are the means of salvation. And there’s no tension there, since both faith and baptism are God’s work.

Do you believe that baptism is only a symbol and nothing more?

 

[LutheranScholar]

“It’s not a religion, it’s a relationship.” “As long as you accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior you’re saved.” “It’s only about me and Jesus”

Those ideas are completely absurd, but on the bright side, these non-denominational evangelical fanatics and their false doctrines will be the end of Protestantism.

Fortunately, these " Evangelical non- denominational fanatics" aren’t the only game in town when it comes to Protestantism. They’re simply some of the loudest players. Meanwhile, conservative Confessional Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans and others are quietly living their lives, educating their children in their respective doctrines and living their lives for Jesus. If Protestants become a small minority as some are seduced by the world and others become even more entrenched in their faith, that can only signify a deeper sense of loyalty on the part of those who remain in the faith.

 

[ltwin]

Do you believe that baptism is only a symbol and nothing more?

No. I believe baptism is a means of grace if accompanied by faith. Both water baptism and the Lord’s Supper are opportunities for real communion with God and strengthening grace.

 

[Koineman]

No. I believe baptism is a means of grace if accompanied by faith.

Lutherans would agree thus far.

Both water baptism and the Lord’s Supper are opportunities for real communion with God and strengthening grace.

We would have some issues with this, namely, that baptism does more than merely “strengthen grace” but is also “for the forgiveness of sins.” The same phrase is used by Jesus at the Last Supper (except for a definite article in Greek), when he said: “for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.” St. Peter uses the similar phrase in Acts 2:38: “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." We would not deny that Jesus’ blood was shed “for the forgiveness of sins,” and since the same phrase is used to refer to baptism, our conclusion should be the same. Of course, it cannot happen without faith.

We would also say that the Lord’s Supper brings forgiveness of sins–provided there is faith, of course.