Christians keeping the passover

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SueKrum

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I’m not sure where to start because I am not very knowlageable on this subject. However, I know some people who believe that we should be keeping the passover, instead of celebrating “the pegan holly day of Easter”.

Please note that I do not share this view, but I need help to discuss this subject with more than, “Catholic tradition says we should do it this way”.

A couple of their main points are;
passover used to be celebrated according to a solar calander and was celebrated something like 2 weeks after the spring equanox. I may be wrong about the number of days, but it had something to do with the spring equanox. These people claim that the Isiah 1:14 states "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. " They claim that since Easter is based on the lunar calander and it is an “appointed feast”, God hates it and we are sinning by celebrating such a day.

So, not only are we celebrating the wrong holly day, we should be keeping the passover at a totally different time than modern day Jews keep it. I know absolutely nothing about if and when this celebration changed and when Christians started celebrating Easter (which the fact that it’s name is pegan in orgen does nothing to help my arguement)

So I’m relying on some of you really smart folks out there to maybe point me to a couple of articles or reccomend a good book for me to brush up on the how and why some of these tradations came about. I’m mostly interested in Easter because this is the one that REALLY seems to bother these people. I need to know for my own resolve as well. While I take comfort in knowing that our church was founded by Jesus Christ and is guided by the Holy Spirit, sometimes, it helps to have more than just the blind faith.

I’m sorry if this is repeat thread, but I did a search and didn’t come up with anything to answer my question. if someone knows of a related thread, simply point me to it and I’ll be happy to go there and read. I’m pretty computer illiterate.:o

feel free to ask me any questions as well if you need more details and I’ll try and answer them as best as I can.
 
Okay, I’ll take a stab at this…

First of all, I have one really really good reason why we don’t celebrate the Passover. We are not Jewish.

Jesus was Jewish, this is very true. As such, Jesus celebrated the Passover. The Apostles were Jewish, they too celebrated the Passover. But wait a sec, then the church went beyond the Jews and expanded beyond Palestine.

In fact, in Peter’s revelation, he is told he may consume foods which were considered traife (that is, not kosher).

Our ancestors (in general) didn’t Passover from slavery in Egypt to the Promised Land. No, in fact, my family is from nowhere near that region. So why should I commemorate it? What significance does it hold to me?

As Christians we HAVE Passover. We call it Pascha, Easter. We Passed Over into a New Covenant. Jesus opened the Gates of Heaven, and holy men and women like Abraham and Moses were now able to Pass Over into Eternal Paradise with Jesus. We have Passover, it just happens to be called Easter.

With regards to it being a “Pagan holiday,” that is quite inaccurate. While that time of year may well have been a pagan holiday, Easter is a Christian holiday now, even if it started off as pagan.

People get carried away with the pagan thing. They fear doing anything the pagans did at any point for fear we are insulting God.

Pagans ate food and drank water. I don’t think drinking Aquafina is damning us to hell.

Pagans also gave us many forms of architecture, philosophy, mathematics, medicine, and right, democracy too.

We have no problem using those “pagan inventions” yet when it comes down to a Christian feast day replacing a pagan holiday, all the sudden people get all bent out of shape. It doesn’t make much sense to me, personally, just sounds like people feel the need to be different.
 
Christians do observe Passover, in most languages Easter is Pasch, Pascua or passover, as we observe the true passover, the fullfillment of the OT covenant and event the Jewish passover commemorates.
 
From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1096 …The relationship between Jewish liturgy and Christian liturgy, but also their differences in content, are particularly evident in the great feasts of the liturgical year, such as Passover. Christians and Jews both celebrate the Passover. For Jews, it is the Passover of history, tending toward the future; for Christians, it is the Passover fulfilled in the death and Resurrection of Christ, though always in expectation of its definitive consummation.

For us individually, our final Passover will be when we enter heaven:

1680 All the sacraments, and principally those of Christian initiation, have as their goal the last Passover of the child of God which, through death, leads him into the life of the Kingdom. Then what he confessed in faith and hope will be fulfilled: “I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.”

For the Church, the final Passover will be at the Last Judgment:

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection. The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God’s victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven. God’s triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.

Regarding the date of Easter:

1170 At the Council of Nicaea in 325, all the Churches agreed that Easter, the Christian Passover, should be celebrated on the Sunday following the first full moon (14 Nisan) after the vernal equinox. Because of the different methods of calculating the 14th day of the month of Nisan, the date of Easter in the Western and Eastern churches is not always the same. For this reason, the churches are currently seeking an agreement in order once again to celebrate the day of the Lord’s Resurrection on a common date.
I’m not sure whether this exactly answers your questions. I hope it helps. God bless you.
 
PhilotheaZ said:
Regarding the date of Easter:

1170 At the Council of Nicaea in 325, all the Churches agreed that Easter, the Christian Passover, should be celebrated on the Sunday following the first full moon (14 Nisan) after the vernal equinox. Because of the different methods of calculating the 14th day of the month of Nisan, the date of Easter in the Western and Eastern churches is not always the same. For this reason, the churches are currently seeking an agreement in order once again to celebrate the day of the Lord’s Resurrection on a common date.
I’m not sure whether this exactly answers your questions. I hope it helps. God bless you.
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Does it state why they agreed upon this date. that helps a little bit. Do you know if there are any writings I can find by some of the churchmen who were alive at this time? I have the book “faith of our fathers” vol 1

The more documintation I can get outside of the CCC, the better. As I said earlier, the CCC is enough for me, but not for the people I am arguing with. I appriciate your help in this matter. My research skills are not that great, I’m affraid.
 
SueKrum said:
but why has the time of passover changed? anyone know?
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Changed from what? It is generally around the same time. I have heard very strong arguments in favor of celebrating Christmas in spring (presence of Sheperds, mainly), but I’m not sure which “time change” you are referring to. Keep in mind, we are operating on two seperate calenders.
 
There are two issues that seem to be presented here. The first is whether or not Easter is pagan and to be avoided. Quite frankly, if some wing-nut wants to believe that, I won’t be able to change their mind, because a statement like that pretty much translates to “I am taking the liberty to reject your reality, and substitute my own”

The second issue is whether or not we should be celebrating Passover. The answer to that is very clear to anyone who believes in the Bible. Our salvation is not to be judged in regard to our keeping a festival, new moon or Sabbath. (this would include Passover).
 
the change that I am refering to, is from going from celebrating according to the solar calander (I think it was originally celebrated something like one week after the spring equanox), to celebrating according to a lunar calander. We celebrate Easter according to the third full moon of the year or something like that. I’m not really sure.

Anyway, the issue these people have is with Easter is mostly the most part. They think that since we have used a new moon to decide the date of Easter that it, according to Isiah "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. "

This is very important to me because someone I care deeply about feels this way and is cuases a family disruption ever Easter and is very heart breaking. If I can somehow explain why the church uses this lunar calander, it may help my case a little bit and maybe get them to stop griping so much.

They used to have serious issues with Christmas, but we have worked through those (because of good sound reasoning), but they are still stuck on Easter. So I am still holding out hope that I can change their heart.
 
SueKrum said:
Does it state why they agreed upon this date. that helps a little bit. Do you know if there are any writings I can find by some of the churchmen who were alive at this time? I have the book “faith of our fathers” vol 1

The more documintation I can get outside of the CCC, the better. As I said earlier, the CCC is enough for me, but not for the people I am arguing with. I appriciate your help in this matter. My research skills are not that great, I’m affraid.
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What is the faith tradition of the people with whom you are having this dialogue? If they’re genuinely trying to understand the Catholic Church’s perspective on things, then why would they dismiss documents that come right from that source? Or are they arbitrarily discrediting all things Catholic and thus putting you on the defensive? That’s a difficult position for you to be in.
 
I just found this link newadvent.org/cathen/05228a.htm that may tell you more than you ever cared to know about the date of Easter (I had trouble wading through it, but it seems pretty thorough). The Catholic Encyclopedia on the New Advent website is usually pretty reliable.

The point in the whole article that seemed most pertinent to your ongoing debate is the following:

“What is perhaps most important to remember … is this, that the Church throughout held that the determination of Easter was primarily a matter of ecclesiastical discipline and not of astronomical science … the moon according to which Easter is calculated is not the moon in the heavens … but simply the moon of the calendar. This calendar moon is admittedly a fiction … but in following the simple rule given for the dependence of Easter upon the moon of the calendar, uniformity is secured for all countries of the world.”

Christ gave the Church authority to bind and loose, to establish laws and practices; and what the Church binds on earth is bound in heaven. That’s good enough for me. If it’s not good enough for your friends, you may have reached an impasse.
 
SueKrum said:
the change that I am refering to, is from going from celebrating according to the solar calander (I think it was originally celebrated something like one week after the spring equanox), to celebrating according to a lunar calander. We celebrate Easter according to the third full moon of the year or something like that. I’m not really sure.

Anyway, the issue these people have is with Easter is mostly the most part. They think that since we have used a new moon to decide the date of Easter that it, according to Isiah "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. "

This is very important to me because someone I care deeply about feels this way and is cuases a family disruption ever Easter and is very heart breaking. If I can somehow explain why the church uses this lunar calander, it may help my case a little bit and maybe get them to stop griping so much.

They used to have serious issues with Christmas, but we have worked through those (because of good sound reasoning), but they are still stuck on Easter. So I am still holding out hope that I can change their heart.
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The Jewish Calender is Lunar. It always was. Jesus would have celebrated feasts according to the Lunar Calender.
 
SueKrum said:
the change that I am refering to, is from going from celebrating according to the solar calander (I think it was originally celebrated something like one week after the spring equanox), to celebrating according to a lunar calander. We celebrate Easter according to the third full moon of the year or something like that. I’m not really sure.

Anyway, the issue these people have is with Easter is mostly the most part. They think that since we have used a new moon to decide the date of Easter that it, according to Isiah "Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear [them]. "

This is very important to me because someone I care deeply about feels this way and is cuases a family disruption ever Easter and is very heart breaking. If I can somehow explain why the church uses this lunar calander, it may help my case a little bit and maybe get them to stop griping so much.

They used to have serious issues with Christmas, but we have worked through those (because of good sound reasoning), but they are still stuck on Easter. So I am still holding out hope that I can change their heart.
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SueKrum, God’s calendar is a lunar calendar that is based on the phases of the moon rather than the earth’s revolution around the sun. See Gen1:14-15. The “signs” for skygazing are the phases of the moon. The suns phase never changes daily but the moon does. Anyone accustomed with the lunar calendar could estimate on a clear night what day of the month it is. This is why the Hebrews could accurately know when to celebrate the seven feasts God apointed to them. See Levitcus 23. Each month starts with a new moon, reaching a full moon in the midst of a 28 day cycle. That is why Passover always lands on a full moon.

Again, Jesus was crucified on Passover, buried on Unleavened Bread, and resurrected on Firstfruits(see Pauls reference in 1Cor.15:23). Since the Feast of Unleavened Bread was seven days long, one of those days would be a Sunday and that Sunday would be the feast of Firstfruits each year. See Leviticus 23:10-11 and take note of “…on the morrow after the sabbath…”.

Thus, it is totally 100% scriptural and correct that the church celebrates the day the Lord was resurrected on the first Sunday after Unleavened Bread, according to the lunar calendar.

Hope this helps.
 
So the passover was never celebrated according to the spring equanox? Hmmm, gonna to read Laviticus now. That may help a LOT. thanks so very much.

PhilotheaZ, they just call themselves Christian. No, they do not have a problem with all things Catholic (although some, but not all, of them do not believe that Catholics are real Christians). The fiew people that are close to me do believe that Catholics are Christians (infact admit that the Catholic church was the first church but think that they’ve messed Christianity up a bunch). They are smiply FIXATED on old testamate traditions such as passover, other Isirialite holly days (like the feast of tabornackles) not eating unclean meats…etc. And they swear up and down that God prefers a solar calander. I’m going to go read the reccomended scriptiures though and hopefully that’ll help me.
 
SueKrum,
You may want to read, or give your friends the book, Catholic for a Reason III, Scriptue and the Mystery of the Mass, by Scott Hahn & Regis J. Flaherty. They do an excellant job of explaining from scripture why we do the things we do in the mass and how they came to be. They also show how the mass is the new passover from scripture. I hope this will help? Keep on defending.

God Bless!
 
This may seem like splitting hairs, but can anyone tell me if the month of Nisan and Abib are one and the same? I have a little bit of trouble understanding the old Hebrew calander.

Also, was the Hebrew calander, at one time, only ten months? if so, how could it have been lunar based?

I’m sorry for all these silly questions, but your answers are helping me a lot in my research. I wasn to be well armed before I go in guns blaizing 🙂

I’m SO very glad I’m not a protestant! It’s easier to let church men, appointed by Christ, to figure this stuff out for me!
 
SueKrum said:
This may seem like splitting hairs, but can anyone tell me if the month of Nisan and Abib are one and the same? I have a little bit of trouble understanding the old Hebrew calander.

Also, was the Hebrew calander, at one time, only ten months? if so, how could it have been lunar based?

I’m sorry for all these silly questions, but your answers are helping me a lot in my research. I wasn to be well armed before I go in guns blaizing 🙂

I’m SO very glad I’m not a protestant! It’s easier to let church men, appointed by Christ, to figure this stuff out for me!
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I’m sure you are familiar with the concept of a leap year. Every four years February is slightly longer.

In the Hebrew Calender, the leap year involves the adding of a whole month. There is the month of Adar, and during a leap year, there is also the month of Adar II.
 
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